Repeater EFIS

[ghostriver]

Howdy,
I have an EFIS D10A and An EMS D10. My backup instruments are; standard vacuum AI, VSI, ALt, AS and elec T/B. I would like to keep my backups (for IFR), but with this there is a space problem in that I would be unable to install an EFIS D100, which would be the perfect solution to display the HSI GPS/SL30. What would be a solution with respect to space would be a repeater for display only of the HSI (just dedicated for the HSI). Could you look into selling a HSI display repeater at a reduced cost?
Thanks Bob

 

[dynonsupport]

There's a couple other threads on this, but the basic fact is that we couldn't make it very cheap (around $1500) so we don't think there is much of a market for it.

 

[Ken_Harrill]

I would probably pay $1500, I would certainly pay $1200. When you consider that installation would be much easier that installing another 10A; the CDI for the SL 30 cost $1700, and the repeater HSI display would be far superior to a CDI. Yes, please build one and sell it for $1200!!!!!!!!

Ken Harrill

 

[weddlec]

Already contacted via direct e-mail about this matter and got a response similar to what I am seeing here, but I am seriously interested in a D-10A size repeater display which can be arranged as part of a conventional "six-pack" - so much interested that I am actually considering an EMS to use only as a repeater, though I don't think I can justify the expense.

Many pilots are accustomed to the vertical primary instrument scan with the attitude indicator above and the DG/HSI below. The D-100A provides the necessary information in a readable format, but doesn't comply with convention and doesn't afford any display redundancy.

I suspect there is a large market for the repeater display, especially after reading postings here, particularly in the case of tandem-seat aircraft where a rear seat display is desired. At the same time, $200-$400 is not a realistic expectation for the retail price of a quality display, but $1000-$1200 is entirely reasonable and competitive. For the $1500 quoted, one might as well buy an EMS.

 

[Thomas_Schaad]

I suspect there is a large market for the repeater display, especially after reading postings here, particularly in the case of tandem-seat aircraft where a rear seat display is desired.  At the same time, $200-$400 is not a realistic expectation for the retail price of a quality display, but $1000-$1200 is entirely reasonable and competitive.  For the $1500 quoted, one might as well buy an EMS.


Guys, I think we need to stay reasonable. I also like to have things for a good price. But this price should also be fair. I think what we actually get from Dynon is perfectly fair. An EMS is basically a screen with a plug and a software in. This is exactly what Dynon would have to build to create the repaeter screen. I know, the software would be different, but the basic remains the same. So I don't see how this widely wished repeater could be much cheaper than an EMS.

Sure, on a first view it looks crazy to order the complete EFIS D10A and using it as an HSI only. If we look up what we get and compare a traditional electro mechanic solution, it looks pretty much different. This would be somewhat like:

Mid Continent CDI US $ 1'595.--
GPS Annunciator and Switching Unit depending of GPS used US $ 490.-- to 919.--
Lighted RC Allen 14v Directional Gyro US $ 1'958.--

All those prices I look up at the Aircraftspruce catalog, so they are realistic. You see, we still don't have a complete backup to all flight instruments, neither do we have an Air Data Computer and many more features of the D10A are missing if we go the traditional way. But we pay roughly the double!  


So looking at it this way, isn't it wise to go for a pair of D10A plus one EMS10, resulting in an absolute "Deluxe Panel" giving redundancy in any direction, but still at reasonable prices?    :


Have a great weekend and kind regards


Thomas  

 

[dynonsupport]

I know, the software would be different, but the basic remains the same. So I don't see how this widely wished repeater could be much cheaper than an EMS.

Actually, since the EMS already does the HSI and EFIS displays, we don't even need to write new software. The hard part is re-packaging the whole thing in a smaller box. As you mentioned, the EMS is actually very basic hardware. The stuff that allows it to be an EMS doesn't take up much space. It would be a lot of work to make a unit that is smaller than an EMS. The power supply takes up a fair amount of space.

 

[dynonsupport]

The D-100A provides the necessary information in a readable format, but doesn't comply with convention and doesn't afford any display redundancy.

This is one of the problems with a repeater display- it's not really redundant at all. For a repeater to keep working, but the main display to go out, only a small percentage of the components could fail and have this work. A repeater gives you more screen real estate, but we would never, ever sell it as a redundant unit, just like we don't sell a D100/D120 combo as "redundant". The only redundancy you can get is two full EFIS units.

The D100 is actually better than the D10A in terms of chance of screen failure, since the D100 has two independent backlights for the screen, so one can fail and you can still see the screen. Because of this, the only failure in the D100 that would cause the screen to go out but keep the repeater working would be a failure of the screen electronics themselves, but as far as I know, we've never seen this happen with any unit.

 

[weddlec]

Point taken on the redundancy issue. That was probably not a justified claim on my part. I think something I have missed is the implication that a repeater display would have different geometry than the EFIS or EMS. All I am looking for is a duplicate display that does not include the expense of what allows it to receive data from engine sensors like the EMS, or what allows it to serve as an attitude indicator like the EFIS. I might have incorrectly assumed that these features contribute significantly to manufacturing costs. All I mean to suggest is that if an EFIS or EMS case containing only the power supply and display components were available for significantly less than $1700 (the cost of an EMS), I would buy one as an auxiliary display to show the HSI. If what I am describing is essentially an EMS, then I really have no case and will shut up and buy one of those (or just learn to deal with the side-by-side display on the D-100A if I can't afford to do that).

I don't mean to be cynical about the issue at all - I am really impressed with the HSI and DG that Dynon have developed, and especially grateful that the firmware upgrade is being offered for free. I was previously interested in the EFIS Lite from Blue Mountain Avionics, but the new HSI feature has pretty well won me over as far as panel planning goes. All I can ask for now aside from the auxiliary/repeater display is an analog NAV input to interface with older radios and a rotary encoder to serve as the OBS or heading selector. These are of course for my ideal world - in reality, I'll buy what's available that I can afford.

Thanks are due to the Dynon support folks for taking the time to read and reply to my rambling.