Seattle Avionics Charts on USB Stick expired ??????

[Johnh38]

Can someone please tell me HOW to get the correct dated IFR charts on my USB stick? Yesterday, I was shooting some approaches and noticed that the plates on my USB stick that are connected to the Skyview displays are out of date, even though the Chart data manager indicates they are current. I download all procedures and diagrams. See images below. Do I need to reformat the stick every time there is a chart data update? I know these are not legal for actual IFR, I use the data on my IFD 540 for that. But it sure would be nice to have the actual (current plate) on the Skyview Display, which is directly in my line of sight.
Image 7749 EXPIRED 13 August 2020
Image 7750 EXPIRED 28 January 2021
Image 7751 Shows USP sticks (E & F) Both up to date as of 2/10/21.
Flight was on 2/9/21

 

[preid]

unless there is an actual change the date of the last change shows on chart. They are current the way you see it.

Seattle Avionics | Tips and Tricks

 

[Tim Fitz]

I am confused. How can they be current if the date on the side of the approach plate is from the previous cycle? I get the orig date on the lower left will most likely be from several years back if it is a simple approach into a po-dunk airport like the one I fly out of. However the date on the left and right of the chart should be the current cycle. Currently my SA files say on my computer and USB stick that they expire 4/21/21. This is consistent with the current chart cycle of 3/25/21 to 4/21/21. However when I pull up the approach plate on my skyview with the current cycle supposedly installed on my USB stick I am seeing the last cycle not the current cycle. If this is suppose to be my electronic chart capability then it is a cycle behind and not very much good in meeting the intent of having current charts for the area I am flying in.

 

[swatson999]

Ever use Jepp charts or have a subscription back in the old days? Remember how you'd get packets of charts to replace only the ones that have been changed? I thought SA was only downloading charts that *changed*, to save download time, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Tim Fitz]

I actually do still have my Jeppesen Airway Manual from 1980 (yes I'm old). I do remember that they only sent out the procedures that change. The issue here seems to be that we are running one cycle behind. The procedure for KUSE RNAV (GPS) RWY 9, the procedure date is 24 May18, but on the side of the current SA charts it has 25 FEB 2021 to 25 Mar 2021. If you look up the current plate on any web site it should be 25 Mar 2021 to 22 Apr 2021. So as I see it nothing has changed on the procedure since May 2018. But to ensure you are using current charts I would think the plate should have the current cycle published on the left and right hand side. Currently SA updates these dates each time, however they are running one cycle behind. According to the FAA Aeronautical User's Guide the date on the side of the approach plate should be the current period that the approach is valid for. As it stands now the approach plates are not current. I use a Garmin 175 which is an IFR GPS navigator, however I reference the SA charts when reviewing and conducting an approach. So I guess it comes down to WTF? Are we current or are we not?

 

[preid]

from Seattle website:

The approach plates have expired dates on them but I downloaded the current set. What's up?​

If you're checking for valid dates of the plate by looking at the side of the plate, you're being misled. The FAA prints two dates on the side of each plate. Although they look like expiration dates, they are not. They simply represent the print cycle of when that plate was last printed by the FAA. That is, even if a plate doesn't change for two years, every 28 days, it will have a new set of dates on the side. FlyQ ignores these dates and uses a database that the FAA publishes to download only the plates that really have changed or been added. Thus, even when all your plates are current, you may see 'old' dates on the side. You have to keep in mind that, unlike IFR enroute charts or Sectionals, there is no planned expiration date for a plate -- they just update it when necessary. Thus, it's not possible for them to print an expire date on the plate since they have no idea when it might expire.

Plates do have revision info on them in the lower left corner, however. This revision info remains constant even when the date on the side changes (unless the plate really was changed, of course) but it's hard to decode as it sometimes involves what's called a Julian date. Moreover, unless you know for sure what the "current" revision info is, it doesn't help you much as there is nothing to compare it to. We all just have to rely on the FAA accurately marking plates when changed. The good news is that we've been doing this for 10 years and we've NEVER seen them make a mistake about this.

Finally, in the ChartData Manager, you can tell FlyQ EFB to download ALL plates, even the ones that have not changed. We do not recommend this, however, as it dramatically increases the download time.

 

[Tim Fitz]

Not trying to beat a dead horse (too late) but even if you download ALL Plates (which I did) the dates of charts that have not changed still were 28 days or one cycle behind. After a chat with the local FSDO they said "ignore" is probably a poor choice of words for a charting company to use. In a wonderful world when I update to the current charts it would have the current cycle dates on the side of all charts, not one cycle behind on those that did not change.

 

[N941WR]

While I understand the technical issues behind the dates on the plates being "out of date" but current because Seattle Avionics (and the FAA) only issues new plates when there is a change, my issue is with my CFII and potentially the examiner.

My CFII has asked me to show him the expiration date on the plates and when I scroll over to the edge, he sees an expired date. The only true way to show him is to pull up the "Plates.txt" or "Plates.xml" file and show him the date in the "LastChanged" column. That is assuming he knows what I'm talking about, which my CFII hasn't a clue.

Do you have a way for me to work around this and get them to understand what the data manager is doing?

Dynon, it would be nice if somewhere when selecting a plate, it would display the last date of simply display a flag indicating that the document is current. The system kind of does that, on boot up, when it checks the expiration date but it only flags you when they are out of date. The system doesn't say "Good morning Bill, I'm up to date!"

Bill

 

[Marc_J._Zeitlin]

While I understand the technical issues behind the dates on the plates being "out of date" but current because Seattle Avionics (and the FAA) only issues new plates when there is a change, my issue is with my CFII and potentially the examiner.

My CFII has asked me to show him the expiration date on the plates and when I scroll over to the edge, he sees an expired date. The only true way to show him is to pull up the "Plates.txt" or "Plates.xml" file and show him the date in the "LastChanged" column. That is assuming he knows what I'm talking about, which my CFII hasn't a clue.

Do you have a way for me to work around this and get them to understand what the data manager is doing?

Bill

How is this different from when dinosaurs got paper plates in a 3 ring binder, got the new changed plates every 28 days, swapped out the old paper ones for the new paper ones, and left the 98% that hadn't changed alone, so that 98% of the plates had dates on them that were old?

Seems like the identical issue to me - no one ever expected ALL the paper plates to have new dates on them, right?

 

[lrg775]

I've found Data Manager ignores the "All procedures/diagram" option, and since I really don't trust it to decide what's expired and what isn't, here's my monthly routine:

• In Data Manager, go to Options>Advanced>Open the download folder on this PC;
• Delete everything in the folder (should be something like User/AppData/Roaming/Seattle Avionics/DataManager)
• Open the ChartData folder on your USB drive, and delete everything in there as well.
• Back in Data Manager, click Update Now.

 

[N941WR]

How is this different from when dinosaurs got paper plates in a 3 ring binder, got the new changed plates every 28 days, swapped out the old paper ones for the new paper ones, and left the 98% that hadn't changed alone, so that 98% of the plates had dates on them that were old?

Seems like the identical issue to me - no one ever expected ALL the paper plates to have new dates on them, right?

Marc,

You brought back a lot of memories of watching my college roommates spending hours keeping their charts up to date. The only difference is that today they are electronic, and everyone expects them display the proper date.