question for Dynon about autopilots moving forward

[VIFlyer]

With the add on of the Trio autopilots, has Dynon suspended or quit trying to certify your own autopilots? I think a lot of us would like to know.

 

[baluta432]

and are there any plans to certify autopilot for Mooney M20F, E, C?

 

[Rhino]

They don't announce that ahead of time. They're working on the Debonair right now. They had hoped the F would be included with the J approval, but apparently that didn't work out.

 

[ckpena]

I agree. I'm beginning to feel forgotten. Seems like a few approvals are achieved for one aircraft make and then the rest of us wait in the abyss. I've been waiting for 8 years. I know there are many who have waited much longer. When I ask about progress, I get an arms raised, palms up, shrugged shoulders, "Beats me" kind of answer. If there's a "progress/here's where we (Dynon) are so far and why" area on the Dynon Certified Website, I haven't seen it. Sorry. I don't mean to offend anybody but it doesn't change my opener on the subject: I feel forgotten. I own a 1960 BE35-33 Debonair; one of many Beech Make and Models long since on a list that Dynon has not made allot of headway on despite 10+ years passing since Dynon captured our portion of the certified market. I love the product, the people, the company business model, but I'm feeling forgotten when it comes to getting our aircraft approved for auto pilot installation.
Chris

 

[airguy]

I agree. I'm beginning to feel forgotten. Seems like a few approvals are achieved for one aircraft make and then the rest of us wait in the abyss. I've been waiting for 8 years. I know there are many who have waited much longer. When I ask about progress, I get an arms raised, palms up, shrugged shoulders, "Beats me" kind of answer. If there's a "progress/here's where we (Dynon) are so far and why" area on the Dynon Certified Website, I haven't seen it. Sorry. I don't mean to offend anybody but it doesn't change my opener on the subject: I feel forgotten. I own a 1960 BE35-33 Debonair; one of many Beech Make and Models long since on a list that Dynon has not made allot of headway on despite 10+ years passing since Dynon captured our portion of the certified market. I love the product, the people, the company business model, but I'm feeling forgotten when it comes to getting our aircraft approved for auto pilot installation.
Chris

Tell me about it. I'm still waiting for the promised auto-trim functionality on the 172R/S models for their STC'd autopilot install - 5 years after installation. The "after-the-sale" support is somewhat lacking.

 

[skysailor]

The main problem causing the delays is the fact that all of this must be run through the FAA for any certified aircraft. Dynon has no control of FAA scheduling.

 

[ckpena]

I’m aware of that but still feel that Dynon should be putting more effort into finishing what they start before pressing on to the next line item. Why isn’t there a dedicated area on the website that keeps us updated? “Rhino” mentioned they are currently working certification for the Debonair. I’ve not seen anything posted to that effect. I apologize if I missed it somehow.

 

[Rhino]

Once Dynon finishes development actions for a particular model, there is no sense in them doing nothing while waiting for the FAA bureaucracy to respond. Besides being a waste of time, it's a waste of manpower if the folks involved are sitting around without purpose. So, they would certainly consider expending effort for further approvals on more models.

The Debonair notice is here:

Dynon Certified | Approved Model List

Dynon Avionics' SkyView HDX STC Aircraft Approval

www.dynoncertified.com

 

[ckpena]

Good points. I agree. Thx Rhino

 

[OgieOglethorpe]

Personally I think they need to get out of the Seattle ACO if they want progress. But even big G was complaining about faa timelines

 

[constantspeed]

Sadly this is a broken record with Dynon and just as much so broken promises. Those of you frustrated waiting for a Mooney or 172 model specific approval? Welcome to the party. This is all déja vu from a forum thread in 2022 in which I made an observation about my own experience waiting for the auto pilot on my 1958 J35 Bonanza to be approved. I purchased my system in late 2019, after being told approval was in a month or two, by end of that year. Sheesh. This prompted my comments in 2022--three years since purchase, and no AP in site. Meanwhile during that same period, Garmin went from zero Bonanza approvals for the GFC500 to having the entire model fleet approved...by 2022! Here we are in later 2025, and the Debonair approval progress bar hasn't moved any further than it was back when I made the 2022 comments. The forum post got the direct attention of Dynon, by the way, and addressed my points directly, and went so far as to arrange a personal and lengthy phone conversation with me, in which Michael (sales director), personally assured me they were commited to seeing the project finished. Still waiting, another three years later, and without any guarantee that even if the Debonair is approved, it will aply to my Bo.

I encourage everyone here or interested to read the post I reference, it was an E-35 guy excited about his new panel install, and sadly my conversation took over. Even more sad, it remains the current state of affairs to this day!

E-35 Bonanza. New dynon panel

I have a brother in law named Brett Danna. Every time I see one of your posts it throws me. Nice looking panel! I’m hoping to see some progress worth posting on mine soon.

forum.flydynon.com

 

[Rhino]

What broken promises? I've never seen them promise to approve an autopilot on any model, and they haven't announced that they're working on a Mooney or 172 approval. Who gave you that promise? They did have a problem a couple of years ago with field reps and vendors making promises to customers that Dynon never authorized them to make. I suspect you got caught up in that, and I believe I mentioned that to you before. But, as I noted in the thread you linked to, Dynon has cautioned customers on numerous occasions, both here and elsewhere, not to base their panel decisions on presumed future approvals. It's not their fault if you didn't see that, or saw it and chose to ignore it. But, since you're still complaining about this three years later, I have to assume you are simply ignoring it.

 

[airguy]

What broken promises? I've never seen them promise to approve an autopilot on any model, and they haven't announced that they're working on a Mooney or 172 approval. Who gave you that promise? They did have a problem a couple of years ago with field reps and vendors making promises to customers that Dynon never authorized them to make. I suspect you got caught up in that, and I believe I mentioned that to you before. But, as I noted in the thread you linked to, Dynon has cautioned customers on numerous occasions, both here and elsewhere, not to base their panel decisions on presumed future approvals. It's not their fault if you didn't see that, or saw it and chose to ignore it. But, since you're still complaining about this three years later, I have to assume you are simply ignoring it.

Don Jones personally promised me in Spring 2020 that I would have the "autotrim" module for the Cessna 172 R autopilot before the end of the year, so we pulled the trigger on the STC install that happened in May 2020 for our 172 tail number 2451N performed by Jesse Saint at their certified install shop "Saint Aviation" in Dunellon, Florida. Still no autotrim available. Is that a specific enough reference for you?

I'm a beta-tester for Dynon hardware and software. On June 16 of last year I installed a beta-test ADSB module serial number 16178 in my plane tail number 16GN for test flight, noted a problem with the reception of towers, discussed it with Jones and David Readout, both of them said they would get on it and resolve it - still not resolved and they have gone radio silent. I'm going to pull the beta module out and go back to the previous standard one, serial number 15501, it worked better. Is that specific enough?

Dynon has severely degraded in the innovation department, they are but a sad shell of their former glory. I love the current hardware but I have zero faith it will be improved upon.

 

[Rhino]

Don Jones personally promised me in Spring 2020 that I would have the "autotrim" module for the Cessna 172 R autopilot before the end of the year, so we pulled the trigger on the STC install that happened in May 2020. Still no autotrim available. Is that a specific enough reference for you?

Ouch! First I've heard of that one. Thanks.

 

[constantspeed]

Somehow I knew you would comment, Rhino. Even after all these years, you are everywhere on this forum, forever a defender and apologist for Dynon. It is as if anytime there is anything even slightly negative about Dynon it hurts your feelings. You seem to have taken on the role of self-appointed spokesperson for Dynon, yet you add no real value, no specific knowledge or insight of substance to contribute, but always there to nitpick phrasing and the minutiae of a premise while ignoring the overarching thrust of the discussion.

Dynon is a business, and as such I would love nothing more than to see them succeed and thrive, with robust products and support. Sadly, this is not the case, nor do they seem to be correcting course to make it so.

Promises were made to myself and a good number of others at the time we bought our systems and invested heavily in doing so—we didn’t choose to ignore anything—and while Dynon has learned not to make public promises, neither do they communicate. The cautioning statements you allude to only came well after and as a result of the failed promises that were made to myself and others—Michael said as much in 2022. Besides, you are ignoring the very familiar sentiment that is again expressed here, the fact that people are losing faith while continually waiting and hoping for progress or communication that doesn’t come.

VIFlyer is wondering if Dynon “suspended or quit trying” voicing the sentiment that “I think a lot of us would like to know.”

The Mooney J and K were approved years ago now, but baluta432 wonders if there are “plans to certify [an] autopilot for the Mooney M20F, E, C?” But of course there is no information, no lip-service to the notion.

Ckpena says he is “beginning to feel forgotten” while after “a few approvals… the rest of us wait in the abyss.” And he has been waiting and asking for over 8 years, and still nothing from Dynon.

Airguy is “still waiting for the PROMISED auto-trim functionality on the 172R/S… 5 years after installation.”

For myself, I have been waiting 6 years for the AP approval, three years since they last told me they were committed to it, but since then only silence. There are a number of other instances people in my same situation, whom I personally know. This is not isolated or limited to one or two individuals.

Clearly the main problem is NOT the FAA, as was pointed out by Michael from Dynon himself in that 2022 discussion. It is easy to point the finger at the FAA, the easy answer when you don’t know anything, yet after all of these years it is clear the FAA is not the main problem in making progress with these model approvals.

Despite that discussion in 2022 (which was an addendum to one from 2021). There has been zero Dynon follow up or communication with those of us in AP limbo since, let alone any additional public information on the progress or future of the Bonanza series. After investing huge $$$$ with Dynon, and the expense, time, and work of a full panel upgrade, do you think I am going to let it go? Dynon certainly hasn’t offered to give me a refund, or make any accommodation. They kept my money. So I feel perfectly entitled to continue to call them out, though I realize I am more likely to die or lose my medical before the AP ever gets approved. If I could afford to rip out all the Dynon and replace it with a full Garmin panel, I would, in a heartbeat.

Whatever Dynon is or is not doing with AP certified approvals, their approach and strategy is a failure, which needs to be addressed and overhauled. Maybe they need new management, maybe new ownership, otherwise their business model seems like slow death.

Your comments in this discussion do nothing to mitigate or relieve the feelings of doubt and disillusion, nor inform and enlighten with anything useful. A big nothing burger.

 

[Rhino]

Somehow I knew you would comment, Rhino. Even after all these years, you are everywhere on this forum, forever a defender and apologist for Dynon. It is as if anytime there is anything even slightly negative about Dynon it hurts your feelings....

Given that I've criticized Dynon on numerous occasions, I didn't bother reading the rest of your post. You've made it very clear you have an axe to grind, and you're quite willing to take it out on anyone who does not agree with you. It's not helpful in any way, but you can be like that if you want to. I can also put you on Ignore if I want to, which I will do right now. That way you'll never have to worry about me responding to you, and I won't have to listen to your complaining. It's a win-win.

 

[constantspeed]

Yes, Dynon has failed to follow through and perform, if that is what you call an axe to grind, but win-win I agree.