Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 issue

[Brantel]

:'(
Knowing that the AP74 gets updated with the Dynon support program over the DSAB when while updating the EFIS, I am having an issue where the program starts to do its job but then errors and will not finish.  It sometimes leaves the AP74 hung and requiring a cycle of its power.

I have successfully upgraded all the rest of the gear (D100, Remote Compass, D120 and HS34) to version 5.2 using the support program and all those went just fine.

The DSAB bus is configured and everything is talking as it should.  The entire system is at 5.2 except the AP74 is at 5.1.1  Everything works like it should including the dimming of the lights on the AP74, the value knob works as it should etc.

Now one piece of info that may be the issue is that I currently do not have any servo's attached to the DSAB.  Not sure this would be the issue.

I even tried to do a firmware backup of what was in the AP74 and it fails as well about 1/2 way thru.

When I do a detect of firmware, I see the D100, the remote compass and the AP74 just as I should with all showing 5.2 except the AP74 which shows 5.1.1

Any ideas?  Will attaching servos allow the upgrade to take place?  Should it upgrade anyway?  Can I just leave it at 5.1.1 and be happy?
:'(

On a side note, is it normal to see ocasional errors and retrys as the blocks are being read from or sent to the units? During my EFIS upgrade I never saw this but during the D120 and then the HS34 upgrades I did see this really quick many times. The retry count never got above 1 before it went on to the next block. The efis never did this at all. It happened during firmware backup and firmware upgrades.

 

[DBRV10]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

Until you have servo's connected and a flying plane, why do any updates at all.

You may have a AP76 by the time you are finnished building! ;D

As for the error..........I have no idea but I did mine on the weekend and its all worked fine!

 

[Brantel]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

I know Dave, the value knob works now.....so why mess with it right?

Well, if there is something wrong with it, I want it resolved before I get servos installed and need it to be upgraded and it not work...

Right now I really don't need it but I will soon ;D

 

[dynonsupport]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

As I mentioned in the other thread, all I can think of is iffy DSAB wiring. I'd double check that, but if it really is solid, goes the right places, and isn't wrapped around some huge noise source, we may need to look at that AP74. Normal operation is much more tolerant of data errors than updating is, so this kind of makes sense. And given you have issues when on a battery charger, I'd really look at your wiring first.

As I also mentioned, DSAB can work with just one wire in some cases, so don't assume because it's ever working that both wires must be fine.

 

[dynonsupport]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

Okay Okay... You resorted to bigfont, so here we go.

We just re-tested your configuration and it updated OK, so I think it might be your unit or some particular combination of your computer/devices/etc.

A few thoughts:

First, remember that the forum is, by design, asynchronous and the least responsive of our customer support methods. If you want quicker responses, shoot us an email at support@ , or even better, call tech support at 425-402-0433. We do try to keep up to date here, but there's a day or few lag at times.

Next, having the servos there shouldn't affect things.

The data errors are expected enough that the support program deals with them robustly. Different computers have different capacities for talking serial fast, so the support program tries to run, and if it finds errors (which are corrected), it slows things down.

What's the exact error you're seeing on ultimate failure?

Try updating with ONLY the AP74 and its master powered up if you haven't already. If that doesn't work, give us a call for an RMA so we can take a look at it.

The 5.1.1 AP74 code is the same as 5.2, fyi. We rev all version at the same time, even if the update is negligible.

 

[Brantel]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

I will quadruple check the wiring but two of the four devices are using factory harnesses that were double checked by me before install and the HS34 and AP74 are tied to those all right behind the devices which are grouped on the left of my panel.

No noise sources other than the charger are even powered up when this happens.

I will recheck the wiring again...

As I mentioned in the other thread, all I can think of is iffy DSAB wiring. I'd double check that, but if it really is solid, goes the right places, and isn't wrapped around some huge noise source, we may need to look at that AP74. Normal operation is much more tolerant of data errors than updating is, so this kind of makes sense. And given you have issues when on a battery charger, I'd really look at your wiring first.

As I also mentioned, DSAB can work with just one wire in some cases, so don't assume because it's ever working that both wires must be fine.

 

[Brantel]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

On the computer/device etc.  All other items updated just fine....

Just giving you guys a hard time, I know your busy and this is not the highest priority.   At least I did not use size 72 bold red in all CAPS

I don't remember the exact error but imagine you are updating and watching blocks get transfered and bam all of a sudden (in the same exact spot each time) it stops and retries about 3-4 times then it states that it has a communication error to the AP74 and that it was unable to send a reset command and that you might have to power it down and back up to get it unlocked.

When I cycle power, it comes back to life.

I did try turning off everything but the D100 and the AP74 and it did the same exact thing in the same exact spot.

I will try again with a different USB to serial adapter and gather screen shots.

Just want all revisions the same since you have warnings everywhere about making sure they are.  Also I want to make sure this thing is not bad before the warranty expires

Okay Okay... You resorted to bigfont, so here we go.

We just re-tested your configuration and it updated OK, so I think it might be your unit or some particular combination of your computer/devices/etc.

A few thoughts:

First, remember that the forum is, by design, asynchronous and the least responsive of our customer support methods. If you want quicker responses, shoot us an email at support@ , or even better, call tech support at 425-402-0433. We do try to keep up to date here, but there's a day or few lag at times.

Next, having the servos there shouldn't affect things.

The data errors are expected enough that the support program deals with them robustly. Different computers have different capacities for talking serial fast, so the support program tries to run, and if it finds errors (which are corrected), it slows things down.

What's the exact error you're seeing on ultimate failure?

Try updating with ONLY the AP74 and its master powered up if you haven't already. If that doesn't work, give us a call for an RMA so we can take a look at it.

The 5.1.1 AP74 code is the same as 5.2, fyi. We rev all version at the same time, even if the update is negligible.

 

[dynonsupport]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

See if you get any further with the different usb/serial converter. If not, we should probably take a look at the unit.

 

[Brantel]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

10-4,  As an Industrial Automation Engineer I understand that all USB to serial converters are not equal.

I have one that is top of the line that I use at work for critical data that I can give a try.

See if you get any further with the different usb/serial converter. If not, we should probably take a look at the unit.

 

[DBRV10]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

As a fellow Industrial Automation engineer, my advice is buy a laptop with a proper serial port..... ;D

Ok got my hat and coat....I'm outa here!

 

[Brantel]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

I have a particular USB-serial adapter that seems to be able to handle anything I can throw at it.  I will try that one.

If that won't work, I will try my work Panasonic Toughbook CF-52 that has a real honest to goodness serial port on it. I would try it first but I don't normally bring it home.

Not sure though that it has anything to do with that since the other devices worked fine.

As a fellow Industrial Automation engineer, my advice is buy a laptop with a proper serial port.....  ;D

Ok got my hat and coat....I'm outa here!  

 

[Brantel]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

Dynon Support,

The wiring was tripple checked ohmed out from pin to pin and even went as far as ensuring all A & B 's were consistent. No issues found

Here is a listing of what I did to end up with 5.2 in my AP74....

First I tried updating firmware to the AP74 using three different serial ports.

1. Allen Bradley USB to Serial Port converter
2. Keyspan USA 19HS USB to Serial Port converter
3. Built in regular RS232 port on a Panasonic Toughbook CF-52

All three failed at some point in the update process.  I even adjusted buffer settings etc with absolutely no change in symptoms.  The AP74 would just stop communicating in the middle of the transfer.

So knowing that the odds of all three of these being a problem being slim I pushed on with the fact that something must be wrong with the AP74.

At this point I disconnected everything from the system but the D100 and the AP74 and reconfigured the DSAB bus to only have these two devices.

Using the built in RS232 serial port I tried a few times to get the AP74 to upgrade.

The first try the coms hung in the middle of updating the AP74 and required a power down and up to get it back to a working condition.  

The next try the coms hung in the middle and the D100 hung on the yellow screen and forced me to pull it out and pull the backup battery.

The third try also did this but this time the transfer went a little farther before it died.  I also had to pull the backup battery again.  Something different this time was that when the system restarted, the AP74 was showing that it required a firmware upgrade to join the DSAB bus.

So then I go back to the Dynon Support program and try again but this time the version for the AP74 was 5.2 even though the transfer did not complete properly. (how can this happen??)

Anyway I started the firmware upgrade process again and this time it was different in the fact that it told me that the AP74 previously was being updated and it failed and would I like to retry and continue to upgrade the AP74 firmware.

So I said yes and sat there astounded as the process went all the way thru from beginning to end without any errors whatsoever.  It restared the system on its own and all was well.  Checked the firmware revisions and all were the same.

I even went as far as doing a firmware backup since I could not get the AP74 to do this before and now it backed up fine without one error.

So it seems to me that there was something invalid in the factory load for the AP74 that was preventing a firmware upgrade.  I tried so many things that I think I got the AP74 into some invalid condition where it would not join the bus and that the firmware was only partially updated.  Once all of the stars aligned, I was then finally able to go thru the complete process and wipe out the invalid firmware.

I do have the backup, support program debug and the datamap files if you guys want to see them.

So here I sit with 5.2 in the AP74 and a good backup of it.  It appears that the AP74 is communicating better than it was with the firmware from the factory.

I still might have an issue with the AP74 dropping off the bus shortly after a cold power up but I will not know until I test that tommorrow night.  It is my hope that the success I had with the communications improving after a good fw upgrade that this issue will be gone as well.

What do you guys think????

 

[PhantomPholly]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

Clearly this is the result of Gremlins.

I had update problems for a while, too, but each traced back to a flaky connection.

 

[Brantel]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

Tripple checked wiring, pins, ohmed them out from pin to pin of each connector in all possible combinations.  Pins inserted all the way.  Prebuilt factory harnesses on the EMS and D100.  Ohm checks < .01 ohms.

I do this for a living on thousands of I/O and communication points of all kinds.  This is not a wiring issue.

Clearly this is the result of Gremlins.

I had update problems for a while, too, but each traced back to a flaky connection.

 

[PhantomPholly]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

Tripple checked wiring, pins, ohmed them out from pin to pin of each connector in all possible combinations.  Pins inserted all the way.  Prebuilt factory harnesses on the EMS and D100.  Ohm checks < .01 ohms.

I do this for a living on thousands of I/O and communication points of all kinds.  This is not a wiring issue.

Clearly this is the result of Gremlins.

I had update problems for a while, too, but each traced back to a flaky connection.

Understood - I didn't say YOUR problem was wiring, but that MINE was.

Yours, I attributed to Gremlins.

Glad you chased them off...

Cheers!

 

[DBRV10]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

Here is a thought.

You use Allen Bradley PLC's........... there is a big chance THAT is your problem. And I am sure you know what I mean.

Did you have RS-VIRUS running on the original laptop, because it hogs com ports and does nasty things.

If you were using a decent PLC system like Mitsubishi you would not suffer this! ;D

DB

RS-VIRUS = Any Rockwell Automation software

 

[Brantel]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

;D

Not even going to get into that debate. I know how to keep the AB/RS beast tamed.....

 

[DBRV10]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

No debate really, the AB software does have a beast that needs taming.

Mitsubishi makes superior and more reliable hardware, but the tools are inferior to the AB software tools by a huge margin. And they dominate the USA/Aust market.

Oddly enough Mitsubishi sell more PLC's than any other manufacturer, so somebody must live with their software tools better than the Aussies/Yanks. :-/

Anyway glad to see your AP74 is wroking.

V5.2 seems to make my heading mode work better with a more stable compass!

 

[jakej]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

David

Didn't you say your system was working purrrfectly before vers 5.2 ?

Jake J
OZ

 

[DBRV10]

Re: Brand new AP74 fw update from 5.1.1 to 5.2 iss

It was...........smarty pants!