EGT / CHT fluctuating

Battson

Bearhawk
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
134
Hello Dynon support,

My situation:
On my last few flights, the EGT reading on my #5 probe has been constantly fluctuating up and down by a few degrees Celsius every second or two, with occasional large swings (as much as 10-15 degrees) perhaps once every few minutes.  Every other probe gives very stable readings.  The #5 probe is also reading ever so slightly lower than the rest, but that could be normal variation in EGT.

Worryingly, every once in a while the #5 CHT also fluctuates sharply by a few degrees, then returns to a steady reading, within a second or two.  On a half dozen occasions in the last 5hrs the CHT dropped almost instantly by 20 or 30 degrees Celsius then recovered to normal, all within one or two seconds.  There was no corresponding change in EGT, other than the little swings I mentioned in the first paragraph.  I struggle to believe the cylinder could really be changing temperature so quickly...

My engine is a new IO-540, running LOP most of the time, full Dynon EFIS / EMS and all Dynon supplied harnesses and probes. We have 285hrs on the whole set-up.

We experienced EGT measurement issues last summer, at exactly this time of year (the hottest month of the southern hemisphere summer) - exact same cylinder.  Ambient temps have been very hot lately, and the engine has been running hotter than usual.

Throughout all this, the engine has never missed a beat, [noticeably] run rough, the noise and power output remain constant, nothing.


My questions are:


*Does any of this behaviour sound like a failing probe / bad crimp connection / something else you've seen before?

*Does the software which reports EGT and/or CHT include any time-delay or fluctuation-dampening algorithms, or are the measurements reported as soon as the probes measure a change in temperature?

*The fact both probes giving strange readings are on the same cylinder is concerning.  Does this sound symptomatic of a well-known engine problem?

*Should EGT/CHT probes be thought of as consumable items, which will need to be replaced every few hundred hours?

Thanks very much for your help.
 

Battson

Bearhawk
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
134
I have tried changing mags, and there doesn't seem to be an ignition issue.

My next step was to swap over a couple of probes, to see if the issue follows the probe or stays with the cylinder.
 

Dynon

Dynon Staff
Staff member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
14,232
Location
Woodinville, WA
*Does any of this behaviour sound like a failing probe / bad crimp connection / something else you've seen before?

Yep - a failing probe or connection will definitely act like this.

*Does the software which reports EGT and/or CHT include any time-delay or fluctuation-dampening algorithms, or are the measurements reported as soon as the probes measure a change in temperature?

All sensors have some filtering at a technical level, but for the purposes of what you mean, the EGTs react pretty instantaneously.

*The fact both probes giving strange readings are on the same cylinder is concerning.  Does this sound symptomatic of a well-known engine problem?

That's probably a better question for an A&P. But an instant change on a CHT can't be real - there's thermal inertia in the heads that you need to overcome. EGTs are a lot quicker but instantaneous step changes that have no gradient are more indicative of a sensor or connection problem.

*Should EGT/CHT probes be thought of as consumable items, which will need to be replaced every few hundred hours?

EGTs ablate over time - given their environment they do tend to get consumed. On some airplanes they last practically forever, while we've seen reports of them lasting only dozens of hours in others.
 

Dynon

Dynon Staff
Staff member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
14,232
Location
Woodinville, WA
Your move the probes experiment can be instructive. I'd probably reconnect them too (but not do this at exactly the same time as the move, to isolate the cause if you "fix" it). It's not uncommon for the spade connections or the crimps between those connectors and their wires to loosen up over time.
 

Battson

Bearhawk
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
134
Thanks for your help.  I assume I can buy probes easily enough through the online store - in fact I see that I can.

Any estimate of what shipping a few EGT/CHT probes from your location USA to New Zealand is likely to cost (I'm not looking for a quote, just a guess :) )

Thanks again for answering my questions!
 

Dynon

Dynon Staff
Staff member
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Jan 14, 2013
Messages
14,232
Location
Woodinville, WA
Probably in the $50-$75 range, not sure exactly how much. Our dealers in the "area" - Aero Assist (Jake Jansen) and Horsham Aviation, both in Australia - each use their own shipper, so you might check in with them to see what they might be able to do. They may have some stock too.
 

Battson

Bearhawk
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
134
For anyone interested in the resolution, re-crimping the existing terminals on the probe fixed the issue.

I think I will replace the terminals once the cowling comes off.
 

jakej

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
2,150
Location
Adelaide, Australia
Battson

Great to hear, our discussions proved fruitful & saved you some money :cool:

As mentioned to you , I use the AMP brand of terminals & don't have any issues with installations now.

Jake J
 

ricardo_godoy

I love flying!
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
46
Hi dynon.

i change one egt probe burned ( out of service) of the cylinder # 4, by new probe...
in flight, in cruise altitud, the six cylinders ( egt / cht) normal parameters.. after change my atittude, descend, egt and cht of the cylinders # 1, 3 and 5, parameters went crazy....
often already realized that moving the mixture or the power, the variations are shown completely erradas..existe any calibration or adjustment for EMS ??
 

Dynon

Dynon Staff
Staff member
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Jan 14, 2013
Messages
14,232
Location
Woodinville, WA
The CHTs and EGTs "just work" - the calibration is inherent to their operation, so there isn't any adjustment possible. When people see erratic readings, it's almost always a probe connectivity issue. If it varies by power setting, perhaps there's a vibration component there that's only evident at some power settings/RPM.
 

aj_richo

I love flying!
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
7
Hi Guys,

Jabiru 2200, 50 hrs. D180 purchased 2010, but only used in anger since October 2014!
I had an issue climbing out on a flight yesterday where #2 EGT went to 850C!!!. Reducing throttle brought it back to 650C, but a about 30 secs later it rapidly spiked to 1350C!!!
I pulled a bit more throttle off, it dropped back then spiked up again. I opened the throttle and it reduced.
After a few minutes #2 stopped its iterations and #1 started doing the same wtf!! The CHT in both cases didn't budge nor were there any rpm changes apart from when I moved the throttle.

I suspect the probes or connections as noted in the above posts, next weekend I'll be checking the induction system for air leaks to eliminate those as well.

Sure gets the pucker factor going when you are over hilly tiger country.

Cheers
Tony
 

aj_richo

I love flying!
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
7
I tried recrimping the existing female terminals as I forgot to take out new terminals to the airfield... made it worse! :eek:

#1 reads 1135C all the time, #2 still intermittent above 2700rpm
 

jakej

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
2,150
Location
Adelaide, Australia
AJ

With what you're seeing I'd replace both male & female connectors with the AMP brand ones just to be sure, those temps are not in fact true but are as a result of the poor quality spade connectors - aluminium melts at about 6-700 C  ;D

Jake J
 
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