Horizon guidance beyond 20 degrees

[Doug McGovern(Guest)]

I fly a lot of aerobatics in my aircraft and I would really like to see the horizion "bars" extended all the way up and down, not just to 20-ish degrees. This would allow me to know when I am directly vertical and also give me roll informaton when I am at high pitch angles.

 

[dan]

This would allow me to know when I am directly vertical...

Doug, I agree with you that more pitch indication would be helpful in some scenarios, but you can't be serious about using your EFIS to determine vertical for aerobatics...  Look left!  

)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com

 

[Thermos]

Another possibility would be the option of displaying down- or up-pointing arrows when pitch attitude goes past a specific limit, say +/- 30 degrees, or when the earth/sky line is no longer be visible. That would provide some easy-to-interpret recovery guidance in case of an unexpected unusual attitude.

 

[dan]

Another possibility would be the option of displaying down- or up-pointing arrows when pitch attitude goes past a specific limit, say +/- 30 degrees, or when the earth/sky line is no longer be visible.  That would provide some easy-to-interpret recovery guidance in case of an unexpected unusual attitude.

Wow, that sounds like an accident waiting to happen if you ask me!! (I know, you didn't...sorry)  That could induce a dumb-arse pilot to split-S inadvertently if he simply pulls (or pushes) in the direction the arrow "tells him" the horizon happens to be.

Any time an instrument like the -D10[A] starts "instructing" in form of arrows or other "hints" like that, I personally think you're treading in unsafe territory.

Think about it this way...if you used a conventional gyro-based artificial horizon, what information would it provide in extreme pitch attitudes?  Essentially nothing.  I'm not trying to make excuses for the Dynon EFIS to provide less than it possibly can, but I think it's important to delineate as clearly as possible the responsibility of the pilot and the role of the instrument.

I personally think numeric indication, in terms of degrees of pitch indicated next to pitch lines (in 10-degree increments), would be a simple, SAFE indication.

Just my 2 cents,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com

 

[Thermos]

No apology needed...hey, it's a discussion board!

I mentioned the 'point to the horizon' arrows because I've tested several EFIS systems on bizjets and helicopters and most have this feature in one form or another. They do seem to work, at least in my experience.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[msudul]

I agree that horizontal guidance over 20 degrees would be nice and particularly to have it extended over pole and back again.  I would also like to see the vertical pitch line extended over the pole.  I also agree with the horizon arrow when the pitch causes the artificial horizon to disappear.  It is a little disconcerting when there is only blue on the screen and no indication of aircraft positon relative to the natural horizon.  I have found that the recovery form roll maneuvers is steady and accurate but that recovery from pitch maneuvers can take 3 to 5 seconds before the unit stabilizes to level flight.

 

[rdoerr]

I also agree that more lines above 20 would be nice and then a number indicating these lines in 10 degree increments.

Thanks
Ray Doerr

 

[jim]

I too would like to see pitch markings every 10 degrees throughout 360 degrees. Something like:

------- 90
---
---
---
------- 60
---
---
---
------- 30
---
---
---
------- (horizon)

In Navy flight training, you do aerobatics and unusual attitude recoveries in jets using instruments alot. This is part of getting your instrument rating, which is the first thing you do in the aircraft. Although aerobatics are easier "on the gages", I think the biggest reason to have additional markings is for inadvertant unusual attitude recovery. Let say you are IMC or inadvertantly go IMC and stall or spin. You get into an unusual attitude. You look at the EFIS and because it has no indications visible, you are unsure of your attitude. To recover safely, you need to be able to quickly ascertain your attitude then react accordingly.