MGL V10 and V6 radio communication with Skyview

[ttreat]

I think it be in Dynon's best interest to interface to any competitor's radio. MGL V10 and V6 are popular so I am starting a thread to nail down compatibility between Skyview and MGL radios. I certainly hope that Dynon does not take the position that we should spend another $1500 for a Dynon com and audio! I hope that this can be resolved. I would also recommend a new sub topic for Skyview com and audio topics.


Here is the MGL communication section of the manual. I can't even determine whether 9600 baud is what Skyview is putting out. So far, my V10 is sending data, group summary is failing, and I have the dreaded red x on my screen.

MGL Avionics V10 transceiver binary communications protocol

This document contains preliminary information on the binary communications protocol used
by MGL Avionics VHF airband transceivers. It is applicable to panel mount as well as remote
units that are controlled via passive panels or EFIS systems.
MGL Avionics does not guarantee correctness of this document. MGL Avionics reserves the
right to change any part of the specification at any time.
Please contact MGL Avionics for a current copy of this specification if you intend using it for
your project.
General
Communications takes place via RS232.
9600 Baud
8 Data bits
1 Stop bit
No parity
The transceiver transmits regular status messages containing sufficient information to build a
typical display image. The status message is transmitted every 120mS.
Messages to the transceiver consist of commands. Most commands result in transmission of
an acknowledgment when the command has been received with a matching checksum.
Exceptions to this are the PTT command (no response) and the request channel command
which responds with channel data.
PTT command has to be sent every 100 mS to keep PTT active.
Command messages containing frequencies that are not within the permitted airband are
ignored and not acknowledged.
Most MGL radios have two RS232 communication links. Both links accept the same protocol
and messages may be sent simultaneously via both links. This allows a redundant
communications link to be established via two EFIS systems. It is recommended that only one
EFIS system controls the transceiver while the other will take control in case the first one has
a failure.
Note: The RS232 links also accept parts of the Garmin SL30 and SL40 communications
protocols. Functions supported are frequency lists and direct selection of active and standby
frequencies. Please view Garmin documentation on message formats. Garmin messages
may be used at any time and may be interspaced by MGL binary protocol.

 

[Dynon]

Hi Tim - We try to start with where we can impact the most people. As a first cut, we support our own radio as well as the SL30/40 format as its published. The V10 looks to have a proprietary output format, so that definitely won't work . So set your displayed com to none in setup to get rid of the Red X. However, that shouldn't inhibit the ability to send frequencies to the V10 if it can receive them via the SL30/SL40 protocol as stated. We haven't tested this here though.

 

[ttreat]

Will do. I'll report back after I test it.

 

[Skee]

whats left out if it cant communicate back?

i cant buy the dynon one since it dosent support 8.33 khz spacing :-/

 

[ttreat]

FYI - the MGL will not tune frequencies from Skyview. I tried turning off the view com as suggested to eliminate the red X but that removed the tune button. So I put it back on the display but tune does not work.

Sorry guys, the MGL is out. I would love to see it supported. The full transmission code is in the manual if Dynon wants to add it to the list of radios supported. I know it would help in Europe.

Dynon! Help us out!

 

[Dynon]

You won't get radio status in the top bar if it doesn't output the SL30/40 format data (which it almost certainly doesn't). But if it can receive frequencies as it claims, you should still be able to use the TUNE COM button to send frequencies to its standby location.

You're right - I mis-spoke. Right now, you'd have to live with the red X on the receive side.

 

[Skee]

Aww crap, only reasonable radio for us europeans gone.

now ill have to look for something much more expensive :-/

Dynon please, i would have bought your com but since 8,33 is not supported and the Mgl is i have no choice to choose other hardware.


support the MGL! PLEASE! :'(

 

[ttreat]

I may be wrong but they could write the code string for the MGL pretty quick since it is published in the MGL manual. No need to call MGL, just write the code.

 

[dynonsupport]

If someone designed a new appliance that had a different plug on it (but used the same electricity as a normal outlet), who would you ask to fix it, the appliance manufacturer, or would you ask the guy who built the house to come in and add a new outlet?

We chose the SL-30/40 protocol as the one to support because it was the industry standard. It has been a published protocol for almost 20 years, and allows an EFIS to control a radio and display it's status. Other radios like the ICOM A210 support this protocol.

MGL appears to know this. The sales page for the V10 says:
"SL30 and SL40 communications compatible with MGL extensions to enable full remote control of entire transceiver with status feedback"

So, you can see why we believed that the MGL radio would just work. Their own sales page says it should.

Now it appears they implemented only part of the SL-30/40 protocol, which prevents us from seeing the status of the radio. While this is something that we could fix, this is something that is better fixed on the MGL side. They are the ones that made a radio and made it incompatible with the industry standard protocol. It does not make sense that Dynon needs to write and support extra code for a radio that could, with a "little" code on their end, work with the standard that everyone else uses instead of their own special protocol that requires unique support on the EFIS end.

 

[ttreat]

I was hoping the Dynon response would have been that it is on the list of future enhancements.

Funny analogy since I am an electrician and earn my living swapping out plugs for ovens, dryers, hot tubs, etc.

I see Dynon's point. However the consumer is always left with a bad experience until one of the two manufacturers fixes the issue. Look at the iphone 5 vs iphone 4. I won't upgrade simply because all of my charge cords wont work in the 5. The world is full of manufacturers with their own standards on threads, plugs, light bulb sockets. The company that fixes it is the hero in the eyes of the consumer.

Since you brought up the plug analogy, you can't possibly defend your decision to make your radio a non-standard cut out. Why, oh why, didn't you fit it into a STANDARD 3 inch opening? . The Dynon argument about SL40 standard falls apart. You force every airplane to hack a non standard opening. Why didn't you at least use the SL40 tray size? There are thousands of aircraft with the stack tray.

Having said that, expecting MGL to change their code isn't good practice. As I see it, they don't need Dynon since they sell their own EFIS. But Dynon could take away MGL EFIS sales if the MGL radio was compatible. The Dynon goal in the serial port screen should be to list as many products as possible. You have code for a bunch of Garmin products.

A new marketing strategy for Dynon might be in order. Maybe if you asked MGL radio owners if they would PAY for the code you might be surprised that we would pay. I would pay $100 for the fix to avoid the $1500 expense of new Skyview radio and com.

I am a Dynon fan and will probably move to your radio eventually. The work involved to modify the panel and rewire it is keeping me from doing the swap right now. Cut, paint, re-wire. I can still tune by hand.

I'll let the topic go. Hopefully, the MGL radio interface will be worked into future upgrades.

 

[Skee]

BTW, why even realease a brand new com 2013 without 8,33 spacing with the New SES mandate in Nov 2013 in Europe?!?

Even Icom and Garmin released new units this year just for 8,33 spacing, MGL has one that is cheaper than Dynon and has supported 8,33 for a longtime!?

What were you thinking? Dynon just lost a whole market with their com! (Maybee they dont care about europe sales?)

http://www.eurocontrol.int/articles/833-khz

 

[Dynon]

The short answer (and there's a more complicated long version) on EU is that the radio really needs to be TSO'd as well.

 

[Dynon]

As for the MGL issue - we'd LOVE to develop every feature to satisfy every customer scenario. At the end of the day, though, we have to make sometimes brutal triage decisions. There's a list of features that is literally >500 deep at this point that have already made the cut of things that we think are reasonable ideas. But those have to compete against all the other things that we decide to do.

As for this feature, we decided to draw the line after our own radio at "be able to send frequencies to SBY on radios that can receive the SL30/SL40 format". It's not perfect, and it does leave out some scenarios.

As for "it is on the list of future enhancements" - it is now. But what we try not to do is to set unrealistic expectations and overpromise. There are things that we bucket into "go do" (affects a lot of customers, is insanely easy, can be tested in-house is the perfect formula for a feature that passes that test) and others that are "wait and see about the demand" (smaller affected set of customers, isn't trivial, is harder to test). This is definitely on the "wait and see" side of the spectrum, admittedly.

 

[louie928]

I read this thread with great interest because I almost bought a MGL EFIS to go with my MGL V10 radio. One reason I went with the Skyview is because the V10 and Skyview were supposed to be able to communicate - someday. That day is here and we find out they can't communicate, and it appears that there won't be a fix from either end.

We do have the serial comm protocols from both and they aren't quite compatible for communications. I think a serial/serial interface could be built to fix the problem. Something that would read in a byte, store to buffer, send out the byte in a different format, or similar action. Possibly a programmable interface already exists that would work, but I haven't checked. There are a lot of the MGL V10 radios with eternally hopeful Syview users and this could be really useful for us.

 

[dynonsupport]

Has anyone actually asked MGL if they might be willing to update their product? They are the ones that advertised their product as SL-40 compatible.

 

[Skee]

Has anyone actually asked MGL if they might be willing to update their product? They are the ones that advertised their product as SL-40 compatible.

Of course i did  even forwarded them to this forum.

The short answer (and there's a more complicated long version) on EU is that the radio really needs to be TSO'd as well.

The Icom a210 25 is not tsod! Has 8,33 spacing.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/comm_0browse/icomA210.php

 

[jethound]

I too bought the V6 MGL after being told by Nick at Dynon that the comm would be out in a year. That was At Oshkosh 2011.So in July of 2012 I was told the Dynon com again at Oshkosh,would be out by November.... Well that did not happen.. But the progress on my plane continued and I ended up buying the V6. Cut the panel and mounted it between my two Dynon Displays... Just a little sore that even though the plane is not flying yet I will not go back and redue the panel.
The ads that Dynon puts out FLY IFR without qualifying the statement. They support Garmin nav systems... But none of the EFIS panels offered have RAIM for GPS and it must be in a separate GPS receiver. But then you still can not fly IFR with GPS alone since the FAA is still in the 60's with their thinking.
You still have to have a NAV receiver.. ie;SL 30

I don't need another comm, I need just a VOR receiver remote mounted that the Skyview can display the frequencies. This would be a great addition to the line up and make the Skyview truly IFR qualified...and I have room for a control head...

But again wishful thinking
. Smilin' Jack Hunt

 

[Dynon]

Just a note that it is our belief that RAIM isn't enough to navigate legally via IFR GPS - the entire GPS needs to be certified if you want to legally fly approaches. Here's our full opinion on this topic. http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1362597418

 

[842]

Here are the settings/setup to make the MGL V-6 radio receive frequencies from a SkyView EFIS:

- update MGL V-6 firmware
- update SkyView to 7.x
- connect one of the MGL V-6 serial ports to a SkyView serial port (TX>RX, RX>TX)
- set the SkyView serial port to: 'Garmin SL-40'
- in the SkyView system setup, set 'Displayed Com' to 'Garmin SL-40'

Now, after selecting a frequency on the SkyView, press 'Tune Com' and the frequency appears in the MGL V-6 as a stand-by frequency.

On The SkyView display top bar, a red cross is visible where you would normally see the frequencies set in the radio.
The V6 does not send Garmin status (which includes the current frequencies). It is a receive only solution for the Garmin protocol as it transmits MGL protocol.

Although I have not tried the MGL V10, It is my understanding that it works the same.

Johan.

 

[dynonsupport]

As a follow up here, we do have a method to remove the "red X" at the top scheduled for one of our next updates.

Jack, there is nothing in the FAA regs that requires a NAV radio to fly legal IFR. You can use just a certified GPS if you want. You just need "navigation appropriate for the phase of flight".