SV-262 Transponder

[wolf1]

Can the SV-262 transponder be sent in and modified to comply with the 2020 mandate or does it become a worthless paperweight?

 

[n456ts]

Dynon has stated the firmware is exactly the same between the two transponders... With a 2020 GPS, I wonder what the realistic results would be flying with the 262. ???

 

[dynonsupport]

We cannot modify the transponders to change the models. The 262 is not a paperweight after 2020- there is over 95% of the USA where it can still be used and it also works in almost every other country in the world.

 

[krw5927]

I'm not sure I understand the response, Dynon.  Your website states, "NOTE ON U.S. COMPLIANCE: Currently the FAA ADS-B requirements specify the higher power Class 1 transponder for ADS-B compliance on and after 2020. Therefore, for U.S. customers, we recommend only the Class 1 SV-XPNDR-261."

Additionally, the product page on the 261 262 says, "130 Watt: <15,000 ft, <175 knots only; cannot be used for 2020 FAA ADS-B Out mandate" (bold emphasis is mine)

This is seemingly in conflict with the statement you just made:

The 262 is not a paperweight after 2020- there is over 95% of the USA where it can still be used....

Will you please elaborate?  I purchased the 261 because of the website literature.

 

[airguy]

I'm not sure I understand the response, Dynon.  Your website states, "NOTE ON U.S. COMPLIANCE: Currently the FAA ADS-B requirements specify the higher power Class 1 transponder for ADS-B compliance on and after 2020. Therefore, for U.S. customers, we recommend only the Class 1 SV-XPNDR-261."

Additionally, the product page on the 261 says, "130 Watt: <15,000 ft, <175 knots only; cannot be used for 2020 FAA ADS-B Out mandate" (bold emphasis is mine)

This is seemingly in conflict with the statement you just made:

The 262 is not a paperweight after 2020- there is over 95% of the USA where it can still be used....

Will you please elaborate?  I purchased the 261 because of the website literature.

You're mixing the models - there are two versions of the transponder, model 261 and model 262. The 261 is the higher power model (250 watt) that is OK for ADSB post-2020, the 262 is the lower-power model (130 watt).

If you have the -261 model, you are just fine.

 

[GalinHdz]

You don't need a 250w (261) transponder to be 2020 compliant within the US if you use a 978UAT as your ADS-B OUT source instead of your transponder. In this case you can still use the 262 transponder, just not as your 2020 compliant ADS-B OUT source. Then there are the airspaces where ADS-B is not required which are a lot.

 

[dynonsupport]

I'm not sure I understand the response, Dynon.  Your website states, "NOTE ON U.S. COMPLIANCE: Currently the FAA ADS-B requirements specify the higher power Class 1 transponder for ADS-B compliance on and after 2020. Therefore, for U.S. customers, we recommend only the Class 1 SV-XPNDR-261."

[/quote]

After 2020, you need an ADS-B OUT device that meets the rules if you fly in Class C or Class B airspaces in the USA. It isn't needed in 95% of the areas of the USA which are not Class B/C airspaces.

Thus, the 261 SV-XPNDR-262 is not an expensive paperweight after 2020 because anyone not in the USA can use it, and people in the USA that do not fly in Class B or C airspaces can use it.

We do recommend the 262 SV-XPNDR-261 to US customers because many do want to operate in Class B/C, and it requires a but of education to describe the details about which airplanes will need to be ADS-B compliant.

If you have a 261 SV-XPNDR-262 and need to upgrade to a 262, SV-XPNDR-261 there is a market for the 261 SV-XPNDR-262 because it is still useful.

 

[airguy]

Now we've even got the Forum Admin confused!

The -261 is the higher power "Class 1" transponder, the -262 is the lower power "Class 2" transponder.

This - from the Skyview Transponder page - "The FAA ADS-B "final rule" only allows the higher power Class 1 transponder to be used as an ADS-B Out transmit device for ADS-B Out mandate compliance on or after 2020. Therefore, for U.S. customers, we recommend only the Class 1 SV-XPNDR-261."

 

[dynonsupport]

The FAA's requirement after 2020 is that you must be equipped with a Class 1 transponder if you fly in ADS-B required areas. If you choose to continue to fly with a Class 2 (SV-XPNDR-262) transponder after 2020 in those areas, that's between you and the FAA.

Dynon has stated the firmware is exactly the same between the two transponders...  With a 2020 GPS, I wonder what the realistic results would be flying with the 262.  ???

 

[dynonsupport]

We've updated the earlier post with corrections.

Now we've even got the Forum Admin confused!

The -261 is the higher power "Class 1" transponder, the -262 is the lower power "Class 2" transponder.

This - from the Skyview Transponder page - "The FAA ADS-B "final rule" only allows the higher power Class 1 transponder to be used as an ADS-B Out transmit device for ADS-B Out mandate compliance on or after 2020. Therefore, for U.S. customers, we recommend only the Class 1 SV-XPNDR-261."

 

[n456ts]

The FAA's requirement after 2020 is that you must be equipped with a Class 1 transponder if you fly in ADS-B required areas. If you choose to continue to fly with a Class 2 (SV-XPNDR-262) transponder after 2020 in those areas, that's between you and the FAA.

Regulations aside. My question is about the equipment.
Yes, or No: If someone has:
1. A Skyview with software 14.1
2. A -262 transponder (class 2)
3. Dynon 2020 GPS
Can the person select the 262 as a 261 in the configuration and have the system believe it's fully 2020 compliant? Based on past comments, it sounds like the two transponders appear the same to the SV unit. They also have identical firmware.

I'm not suggesting someone evade the rule requiring the class 1 transponder. However, it appears like one realistically could.

 

[Dynon]

The software won't stop you, and it will broadcast the same (albeit at lower power). You'd be non-compliant because you're not equipped per the regs though.

 

[GalinHdz]

The software won't stop you, and it will broadcast the same (albeit at lower power). You'd be non-compliant because you're not equipped per the regs though.

And you won't pass your next 2yr static system/transponder check.

 

[dynonsupport]

To be clear, you WILL pass your transponder check. The 262 is a perfectly legal transponder.

The issue will be that the wattage reported on that report, may be insufficient for the ADS-B regs. But a transponder check is not an ADS-B check. There is no recurring check required for ADS-B.

 

[GalinHdz]

To be clear, you WILL pass your transponder check. The 262 is a perfectly legal transponder.

The issue will be that the wattage reported on that report, may be insufficient for the ADS-B regs. But a transponder check is not an ADS-B check. There is no recurring check required for ADS-B.

OK I can accept that hair being split. But to be completely clear without a 978UAT module for ADS-B OUT your transponder must transmitt the higher power or you are not 2020 compliant. So when the person doing your transponder check logs the lower power, and AFAIK this is a required field to log, then there is hard evidence waiting to be used against you. IMHO not worth it.

YMMV

 

[n456ts]

Wolf1, you now have enough information to make an informed decision. Good luck!