ADAHRS and EMS failure

[jaba-who]

I’ve got multiple issues that have arisen with my Skyview HDX (about 5 years old).

Intermittent faults - screens (left half of screen - EFIS Display and Engine systems bar across bottom ) go black with red crosses and says ADAHRS Fail and EMS Fail.

Also “Touch Screen Error” used to occur occasionally - now mostly constant
Also Power Down error - occasionally when ship power goes off dynon detects power off but doesn’t go into the 30 seconds power down countdown. Just sits there powered off the battery.

EMS & ADAHRS Fail - occurred rarely & I assumed it was due to perhaps a cable loss of contact because happened infrequently and when happened was only instantaneously. Now happening from every 30 secs to perhaps 10 or 15 minutes in flight.

In view of my initial thought that it was a cable fault I sequentially replaced each cable with the test cable that came with the Skyview but no difference with any location.

My System - I have the following in a Jabiru 430 and I’m in rural Australia.

Single HDX 1100 with AP & Knob panel
Two dynon AP servos
EMS & ADAHRS modules
Backup battery
Network hub

Touch screen issues - ever since I got the system the screen error has infrequently occurred but often the error warning came up but the screen functioned normally. So never really pursued it. Now there is a definite error - touch screen doesn’t respond to touch and have to navigate using rotary knob.


Any thoughts or advice?

 

[Rhino]

Sounds like your HDX may be failing. You should contact support.

 

[airguy]

Pull a diagnostic file, and contact support.

 

[jaba-who]

Just to keep all up to date.
I borrowed another HDX screen and the problem reappeared in that one.

So I’m working on the principle it’s a problem with something else - one of the modules or a cable. Tried swapping or replacing cables, tried sequentially without single modules.
Various “apparent” short term cures followed by return of the error.
In the end the error became so intermittent that I couldn’t tell if it was going to happen or not.
The only thing that stayed constant was the touch screen error.

Now waiting to hear from the Dynon support people.

 

[Rhino]

Must be that reverse Coriolis gremlin rearing his ugly head again.

 

[flysgi]

I’ve got multiple issues that have arisen with my Skyview HDX (about 5 years old).

Intermittent faults - screens (left half of screen - EFIS Display and Engine systems bar across bottom ) go black with red crosses and says ADAHRS Fail and EMS Fail.

Also “Touch Screen Error” used to occur occasionally - now mostly constant
Also Power Down error - occasionally when ship power goes off dynon detects power off but doesn’t go into the 30 seconds power down countdown. Just sits there powered off the battery.

EMS & ADAHRS Fail - occurred rarely & I assumed it was due to perhaps a cable loss of contact because happened infrequently and when happened was only instantaneously. Now happening from every 30 secs to perhaps 10 or 15 minutes in flight.

In view of my initial thought that it was a cable fault I sequentially replaced each cable with the test cable that came with the Skyview but no difference with any location.

My System - I have the following in a Jabiru 430 and I’m in rural Australia.

Single HDX 1100 with AP & Knob panel
Two dynon AP servos
EMS & ADAHRS modules
Backup battery
Network hub

Touch screen issues - ever since I got the system the screen error has infrequently occurred but often the error warning came up but the screen functioned normally. So never really pursued it. Now there is a definite error - touch screen doesn’t respond to touch and have to navigate using rotary knob.


Any thoughts or advice?

I am so curious if you have solved this issue! I am having the same issue that Dynon does not seem to have a solution for. A new screen, two new adahrs, and no improvement. RV 12, 400 trouble free hours Skyview touch, ap, Ems, ap panels, back-up battery...the entire set-up as plug and play as Van's made it.

 

[flysgi]

I am so curious if you have solved this issue! I am having the same issue that Dynon does not seem to have a solution for. A new screen, two new adahrs, and no improvement. RV 12, 400 trouble free hours Skyview touch, ap, Ems, ap panels, back-up battery...the entire set-up as plug and play as Van's made it.

 

[PhatRV]

I had a ADHARS failure that resulted in an incorrect aircraft attitude and headings. I had to purchase a refurbished ADHARS from Dynon which still costs plenty. I found out now that the solid state EFIS, EMS, ADHARS are not as reliable as they appear, and may be not as superior to the analog steam gauges. Sure I like to conveniences of using the modern EFIS and its ancillary equipment compare to using the steam gauges. I understand that the commercial grade Dynon equipment are not built to the Mil_Spec standards like in the military. Some of the internal chips made in china will go bad, some sooner than later. I have to come to term that all my Dynon equipment will have an end of life date, and they don't last forever. For information, my ADHARS failed before I had a single hour on the Hobb meter.

 

[OgieOglethorpe]

I had a ADHARS failure that resulted in an incorrect aircraft attitude and headings. I had to purchase a refurbished ADHARS from Dynon which still costs plenty. I found out now that the solid state EFIS, EMS, ADHARS are not as reliable as they appear, and may be not as superior to the analog steam gauges. Sure I like to conveniences of using the modern EFIS and its ancillary equipment compare to using the steam gauges. I understand that the commercial grade Dynon equipment are not built to the Mil_Spec standards like in the military. Some of the internal chips made in china will go bad, some sooner than later. I have to come to term that all my Dynon equipment will have an end of life date, and they don't last forever. For information, my ADHARS failed before I had a single hour on the Hobb meter.

Mil spec is just a marketing buzzword for people that think it's good. It's a minimum acceptable quality the military has established. Doesn't mean it's good.

 

[PhatRV]

I work in aerospace and the specs on the internal devices are way above everything in the commercial world. Functionally they are similar but they go through a lot of heat/cold cycles, vibration rigors that will destroy most of the commercial chips. Sure some use the term milspec as a marketing but for us, it means a whole lot different because we have to qualify them to the standards, instead of just using the term with nothing to back it up.

 

[Rhino]

I served 20 years in military avionics, and 8 years as a contractor after. The contracting, procurement and supply rules and regulations were a bureaucratic morass that did little for quality, and made costs soar. Mil specs were related to that, but had a different purpose. They demanded minimum quality technical and material specifications, along with the testing and certification to prove it, which also drove up costs. Both of those are why the same parts could sometimes cost $10 from a local supplier, but hundreds for the military. But make no mistake, mil spec is a higher standard. It's not unlike using AN hardware. Without it, you often would have no clue what the true quality of that identical, locally procured part was. There are also very many locally procured parts that didn't meet the mil spec standards, and aren't identical. Those are a crap shoot. So, the mil spec label, if not fraudulently applied, does help insure you are getting a part produced to high standards. What we have to decide as homebuilders is if we really need that higher standard. Some mil specs are far more stringent than what we really need, and thus may not justify the higher cost that usually accompanies them. That's something you have to evaluate on a case by case basis.

 

[RV8JD]

I had a ADHARS failure that resulted in an incorrect aircraft attitude and headings. I had to purchase a refurbished ADHARS from Dynon which still costs plenty. I found out now that the solid state EFIS, EMS, ADHARS are not as reliable as they appear, and may be not as superior to the analog steam gauges. Sure I like to conveniences of using the modern EFIS and its ancillary equipment compare to using the steam gauges. I understand that the commercial grade Dynon equipment are not built to the Mil_Spec standards like in the military. Some of the internal chips made in china will go bad, some sooner than later. I have to come to term that all my Dynon equipment will have an end of life date, and they don't last forever. For information, my ADHARS failed before I had a single hour on the Hobb meter.

I might change the phrase 'commercial grade' to 'consumer grade', a step lower in quality. I've been a little disappointed too in the reliability of the components.

In my RV-8:

- The SV Touch failed at 460 Hobbs Hours (the failing SSD problem, resulting in the "Rainbow Screen of Death"). But Dynon did fix it for free even though it was slightly out of warranty, which I appreciated.

-The SV-32 pitch servo shear screw failed at 501 Hobbs Hours. The screw was replaced with the updated stronger screw Dynon changed to because of failures in the field.

- The ADAHRS failed at about 1320 Hobbs Hours (replaced with a new one I had to purchase).

- And not to mention the numerous CHT and EGT sensor problems I had before I replaced all the connectors with the EI OLC connectors.

But note that the big "G" has had their share of issues too, as have been reported on VAF.

 

[swatson999]

And I work in a field that uses Class S parts...and we STILL get GIDEP alerts for them.

There are myriad processes that go into making systems or subsystems that are reliable enough for whatever the intended task is, and it's way more than just parts. Assembly, integration and test, qualification, stress testing, etc. And one thing I've learned is to *never* jump to conclusions about what the root cause of a failure is (or are...there are often several root causes). E.g., do you *know* what the qualification levels of the chips in a Dynon system are? Or are you assuming something? Could be an assembly problem (like early on, when they had a failure of the board cleaning process).

Pitch servo screw replacement: design problem, not parts.
CHT/EGT sensor issues: connectors, not sensors nor electronics

BUT, you're right...these are systemic problems that could be indicative of a companywide QA problem, and if they're wise, they'll jump on things like this to find the ultimate root causes (culture, training, what have you).

 

[RV8JD]

BUT, you're right...these are systemic problems that could be indicative of a companywide QA problem, and if they're wise, they'll jump on things like this to find the ultimate root causes (culture, training, what have you).

I'm glad you added the last sentence, as I was going to add something similar. I hope Dynon does take note and step up their game before they get a bad rep that hurts their business. Overall, I like my Dynon SV system and I would hate to see Dynon take unnecessary hits due to perceived poor quality of their hardware or software (which has not been trouble free either). I joke that we Experimental folks Beta test the software before it's released to the Certified folks, but there is a kernel of truth to that.

 

[jnmeade]

In the 70's, I was a line foreman for a firm that made variable resistors. My experience at that time was the Mil-Spec or DESC and commercial resistors were built the same way by the same people using the same materials to the same standards but the DESC were 100% tested while the commercial version was tested to a certain percent of the batch, depending on the contract.

 

[flysgi]

Sounds like your HDX may be failing. You should contact support.

 

[flysgi]

Did you find a solution out in Australia?