Advanced Autopilot

[djones]

Spent some time talking to the guys in the Dynon booth at Oshkosh and learned that the advanced autopilot is going to have a panel mounted switch module similar to previous autopilots from Dynon. (somewhat business card sized is what I was told) The question I have is.... are there plans for a horizontal as well as verticle configuration on this module?? If there is an option it would sure help me, as a horizontal mount could easily be installed mid panel so it's accessable from either seat.

 

[preid]

How about more details? what is "advanced" that requires a panel mounted switch? I thought Dynon was trying to make all hardware additions to be viewed and adjusted from their panel?

 

[dynonsupport]

"Advanced" means vertical navigation from a NAV radio glide slope or IFR GPS vertical guidance (LPV WAAS approaches and such), as well as sequencing from vectors (heading/track mode) onto approaches. Basically, the IFR autopilot scenarios.

Nothing's definite on the control panels. For sure there will be a vertical version. A horizontal version is less likely, but not impossible. It will depend on feedback.

 

[Brantel]

Some common feedback that your likely to hear is that for early to ??? adopters of the Skyview, they are not gonna be happy if they are told they must add another user interface to their panels in order to get the advanced features out of the AP.  I can say with pretty strong confidence that most people that currently have a Skyview did not expect that they would have to do this in order to get vertical coupling on the AP.

People don't enjoy having to cut new holes in an existing panel and also messing with their symmetrical layouts or rearranging devices to get something new in the panel in a usable spot.

 

[dabear]

Interesting, as I thought I saw multiple requests for a separate panel for advanced auto pilot activities. Similar to the one for the earlier AP.

I for one look forward to having that panel so I have dedicated buttons for some Ap functions.

Bear

 

[rfinch]

For sure there will be a vertical version. A horizontal version is less likely, but not impossible. It will depend on feedback.

Hey for those of us laying out our panels could you provide dimensions?

 

[Brantel]

You may have but that has nothing to do with folks that already have nice symmetrical or fully loaded panels and that don't want to go hacking em up or rearranging everything to fit this in. Lots of people that upgraded from the legacy systems to the Skyview already went through this pain.

I see you have plenty of room in your panel so that might not be an issue for you but I bet that is not the case for the majority.

All along Dynon has marketed the Skyview buttons, knobs and menu structure to be a thing of beauty. Most if not all of the competition for Dynon manage to get their AP controls on the screens themselves so it should be doable for Dynon. (yes I know they have a separate control head but that's not the point)

Personally I do not care if Dynon requires the advanced Skyview AP to have a separate interface or not but those that are planning for the future need to know about it so they can make provisions.

 

[Ken_Kopp]

Personally I'd prefer to have the advanced AP integrated into the display so I do not have cut into the panel however, I do see some advantages to having a dedicated control head and will be happy either way.

Some advanced features require more knob twisting and button pushing than others. With a MAP screen displayed one knob is already dedicated to map range scaling leaving only 1 other knob to handle: heading (or track/crs), altitude, baro, all the bugs, etc... Minimizing the number of knob/button sequences is important to workload management. Even now, to change heading (or any other parameter) requires the knob to be pushed left or right to bring up a knob menu, the knob twisted to highlight HDG as the selected parameter to change, then pushed again left or right to get rid of the menu, then twisted to the new hdg. This equates to 4 tasks required to change HDG. A dedicated panel can reduce this to the 1 task of twisting the new hdg = workload reduction.

features such as ALT-P (altitude hold preview) for example would be so much easier with a dedicated knob. Ditto for hdg/crs/trk changes as well. I have no idea if an ALT-P function will be available or not but I hope so as it allows the AP to maintain ALT hold at the current altitude while setting the next altitude "arming ALT-P" in the que. When ALT-P is engaged the plane climbs or descends to this altitude then switches to ALT hold mode. I'd envision a knob for twisting the desired preview altitude with an integral push-button to activate it. This is a great feature for instrument approaches allowing the pilot to stay ahead of the plane more easily.

Every model aircraft our company develops has glass cockpits and everyone of those has a dedicated AP control head....

 

[dpbarnes]

I'am one of those folks that Brantel is talking about.  I have a pilot wife who agreed to make the right seat her home as long as she had everything on the right side that I had on the left.  I lot of time and effort was spent laying out the panel.  If you hold a mirror vertically in the center of the radio stack it looks the same either way.  I attended every air venture and sun n fun from before skyview was released until now trying to get all information regarding the direction of the development.  My impression was that any changes would involve behind the panel wire in boxes or software updates.  To realize that I might not get vertical coupling on the autopilot without adding a panel mounted box makes me very unhappy.

 

[Brantel]

Of course to make everyone happy, Dynon could just make the external AP control panel an optional item and give the menu structure to those that don't want an external control panel. Two choices, take your pick....

 

[rlmarshall]

My panel was just cut by Stein. What would have been the problem with simply letting us know that it was being considered? You are selling to homebuilders after all. I might be able to squeeze in a horizontal but vertical would need to go on the far right side which would not be good for an autopilot controller.

 

[dabear]

I can understand both ways. Certainly, there are available buttons on the AP page.

Yes, I have some space on the pannel to put more items.

But I also like the separate panel.

Bear

 

[JTD]

If you fly IFR in a busy environment you will want a dedicated course and heading knob.

 

[blahphish]

Kindly request Dynon to make the panel mount device optional and have vertical nav a software option in skyview.

 

[rfazio1951]

I would love a seperate auto pilot keypad or control. Personally I think a seperate keypad and controls are in order to control a host of skyview functions. Navigation, enter the airport via keypad, auto pilot, controls via seperate knobs, Transponder, enter the squalk on the keypad, etc, etc. I would mount it on the console between my seats, plug it into RJ45, network or serial, doesn't matter to me.

 

[nigelspeedy]

How would a panel mounted control panel be connected? Serial or via the network connections? I am out of serial ports so I would greatly appreciate it if it was done via network connections if possible. Or if the control panel was an option to get easier interface but all the functions could be accessed via the knobs/buttons on the screens.
Looking forward to seeing these capabilities develop.

 

[dynonsupport]

Any control panels we design will be SkyView network for data and power. The transponder was serial because it's certified, and the ADS-B box is serial because it sends so much data. All other stuff is planned to live on our network.

 

[dynonsupport]

A more general response to this thread:

So while it’s true that our plan of record has involved a required control panel to enable the “advanced” autopilot features (like vertical nav and other IFR-centric features), our thinking is evolving. We definitely think that a control panel with dedicated buttons is a superior way to interface to the advanced autopilot features, and there absolutely will be one and we think our customers will love it – especially IFR pilots. But don’t worry, we also will have the advanced capabilities available through the SkyView display menu system. There may be some limitations to the SkyView display interface because of the inherent design (we’re still working through the user interface, frankly), but the advanced autopilot won’t be crippled without the control panel.

We will have the full story about the autopilot and control panels as we get a little closer, but I hope this clears things up.

 

[swatson999]

Let me just say this...

REALLY? You put the interface to the transponder, the "non-advanced" autopilot, the ADS-B, blah blah blah, on the screen, and then go to a stand-alone control panel for "advanced" autopilot features?

If you can't put the exact same capabilities ON THE EFIS, then you're not doing a very good job of designing your interface.

I, for one, don't want to go cutting new holes in my brand new panel...I spent a lot of time laying it out and minimizing the clutter, designed around the EFIS as the primary input device. I don't want to have some random box dedicated to a *single* capability sitting there mucking it up.

Put it in the EFIS. Make the panel an option for those who like doing it that way. But DON'T require a panel to use ANY of the advanced capabilities. I'm pretty sure I can handle an extra button push or knob twist now and again to access a function, if need be.

 

[dynonsupport]

Steve, make sure you see the response we posted just a few minutes before yours.