AOA improvement suggestion

[johnsteichen]

I love my dynon AOA and use it on every landing I did notice that I became dependent on the audio tone on short final as I kept my eye on the runway. The visual AOA indicator is very small. a GREAT FEATURE would be to touch the aoa widget on the screen and have it jump in size to. BIG for maybe 2 minutes , and then have it automatically revert to normal. I had a malfunction of the aoa due to a small piece of dirt  in the  pitot aoa sensor opening. Relying on the aural tone was dangerous. A larger AOA temporary widget would train me to look at the EFIS a little more and reference the widget and airspeed. Please consider this

 

[jnmeade]

I talked to the Dynon boss at Oshkosh and said I'd like a visual AOA on the glare shield. He told me to use the aural notice.
Ergo, I got the impression that anything visual with AOA was not going to get support at the highest levels of Dynon.
Your idea is interesting and I'd like to see it developed.

 

[vlittle]

I talked to the Dynon boss at Oshkosh and said I'd like a visual AOA on the glare shield.  He told me to use the aural notice.   
Ergo, I got the impression that anything visual with AOA was not going to get support at the highest levels of Dynon.
Your idea is interesting and I'd like to see it developed.

OK, let me have at it: In my opinion, the audio system is superior to a glareshield indicator under most circumstances.  For Visual approaches, your eyes should focus outside the aircraft, not glued to an AoA indicator, no matter where it is mounted.

The exception to this is if you have a tail hook and arresting cable to assist you.

I have developed and sold two AoA indicator devices, including a glareshield version for Dynon (and Garmin and GRT).  That was 10 years ago, and based on my experience and product sales, it wasn't that popular.  When Dynon introduced the progressive audio tones, I even repurposed the proto in my aircraft as a flaps overspeed warning (with tones!).

I then developed a stick shaker that transmited vibrations to the stick, kind of like a haptic version of the audible tones, and provided it to the FAA. This worked well, with training.  In the end, however, the audible indication is more than adequate and intuitive, and.... free.

In my opinion, a glare shield indicator is not as good as the audible tones, but may be useful for some folks as a supplement.  So is the airspeed indicator!  I like the idea of a pop-up indicator when the AoA is active, as long as it is not distracting.

So, in defense of Dynon... I think they made the right choice, and I have performd a market test to prove it.

Many have asked if I would provide the design for free, since I no longer sell it.  It is one of two devices that I have not open sourced because of liability concerns.

Cheers, V

 

[jnmeade]

I don't disagree that the aural approach has benefits. Let me mention a few other considerations. I learned to fly AOA in a two-pilot system. That let one divide attention a little better because one could focus more and let the other pilot handle certain things. The AOA I learned with was positioned so it was readily available with only a drop down of the eyes from the view of the runway. It was as easy or easier than looking at the ASI, which is what we are all taught to do when we start.
The aural is a little distracting to those passengers who aren't used to it. One ends up having to explain it before hand or in the event.
When we learn to associate the aural tone with the right pitch attitudes as we land, we'll do better, no doubt. Right now, it may be that few of us make that association as we learn to fly so we have to relearn this later. Yes, some are taught to hear the stall warning chirp at touchdown but many are not.
This is not to start or foment an argument. I accept that the aural AOA presentation is likely superior. This only serves to add some breadth to a discussion by offering some other perspectives. If I had my druthers, I'd have the heads-up display and the tone.

 

[skysailor]

Vern,

I saw your post and wanted to know if you would still sell your units. I came to the Forum after you discontinued them since I never saw your unit. I learned to fly in the Navy and spent my time there with a hook on the back so AOA is near and dear to my heart. I would love to get a couple of units and would be happy to purchase them if they are a format I can use.

 

[stede52]

I've use a couple different kinds of visual AOA's on my Cubs and by far, the Dynon AOA using the various tones works the best for me. If you have it setup right the tones will tell you precisely went you will stall. I like the ability to keep my eyes focused on my landing spot rather then in the cockpit.

 

[vlittle]

Vern,

I saw your post and wanted to know if you would still sell your units. I came to the Forum after you discontinued them since I never saw your unit. I learned to fly in the Navy and spent my time there with a hook on the back so AOA is near and dear to my heart. I would love to get a couple of units and would be happy to purchase them if they are a format I can use.

I would recommend that you follow this thread http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=148638&highlight=On-speed

It provides a Naval Aviator's implementation of AoA. It's a hardware/software project that may be fun to implement. Superior to my implementation.

Vern