Audio Panel

[Ratman]

I have a suggestion for what I think would be an obvious hit amongst Dynon customers and fans.

There just isn't an affordable audio panel with enough inputs for 2 and 4 seat experimentals out there. What I would like to see is a panel with a 4 place sterio intercom. Inputs for 2 Comms, 2 navs, voice alarms, tone alarms, XM music, and at least a few spares. An isolate for pilot and pax. A GIB panel with volume and source choices.

I'm sure by now you all have seen the HS34 and the AP76 expansion modules. Imagine an audio module just like these with volume, squelch knobs and selector buttons and on the DSAB.  Nice huh? Probably a no brainer for the Dynon engineers.

What do you guys think?  Feel free to add on to my list or even better tell me what you want and why.

Hopefully with enough interest Dynon will deliver.  

 

[PhantomPholly]

That is a terrific idea. The panel could be MUCH smaller if the menus worked through the EFIS, possibly mounting part of it remotely.

 

[PilotKris]

I vote NO as there are already tons of them available.

There is quite allot involved in designing and manufacturing a high quality audio system. Most of the cheep affordable units sound great in the shop but terrible in the noisy (sound and electrical) aircraft environment.

I've got a PS Engineering PM 7000MS and love it. They even have a unit with built in XM as you request. I doubt that a Dynon unit would be significantly better or cheapermore affordable.

I'd rather Dynon focus their energy on products that aren't readily available already like a remote screen for tandem aircraft. I'd rather have a remote mount HS34 than a remonte mount audio panel.

 

[Ratman]

I vote NO as there are already tons of them available.

There is quite allot involved in designing and manufacturing a high quality audio system. Most of the cheep units sound great in the shop but terrible in the noisy (sound and electrical) aircraft environment.

I've got a PS Engineering PM 7000MS and love it. They even have a unit with built in XM as you request. I doubt that a Dynon unit would be significantly better or cheaper.

I'd rather Dynon focus their energy on products that aren't readily available already like a remote screen for tandem aircraft. I'd rather have a remote mount HS34 than a remonte mount audio panel.

Wow Kris, I didn't expect to be shot down!

There are a lot of intercoms available but not many audio panels at Dynon quality and price. I'm glad you are happy with your audio panel, you paid enough for it I'm sure. But it can't do what I suggested. I didn't ask for XM to be built in, I suggested more inputs. Not many out there have enough inputs for what is going into experimental aircraft today. Of course I could buy an expensive panel and make do, I would rather have something integrated and that's what Dynon does quite well.

I would think what Dynon has done in recent years would put any doubt out of mind when it comes to their capabilities. As I understand it, Dynon would like to provide us with everything electronic that goes in our aircraft. That would have to include an audio panel.

Rat

 

[khorton]

I too would rather see Dynon fill out their current product line before they move into new areas. I would love to have either a remote mount HS34, or a box that combined both AP76 and HS34, or in a perfect world, a remote mount box that did everything the HS34 and AP76 do. I've simply run out of room for more stuff on my instrument panel.

Maybe I'm not properly understanding the proposal. Which parts of the interface of a typical audio panel is proposed to be moved to menus on the EFIS?

 

[182ppl]

What I truely would like to see is Dynon produce a decent Nav-com. The current market doesnt have much competition. Garmin SL 30, King KX 155 and 165. I was thinking Icom would have come to the table but they decided to produce a com only with their 210.

 

[Ratman]

Maybe I'm not properly understanding the proposal.  Which parts of the interface of a typical audio panel is proposed to be moved to menus on the EFIS?

None, I am not proposing any part of the audio panel be integrated into the EFIS. If you have a Dynon, 496 with XM, and a couple of Nav/Com or just Com, it gets difficult to integrate all of these audio sources together with an affordable audio panel. However, I think with Dynon's "outside the box" way of thinking they could come up with an expansion module type of device that could handle separate inputs seamlessly. Maybe even put a minute or two of recording capability in there.

If you take a look at the AP76 module and imagine the buttons referring to the different audio sources you will see what I have in mind. Of course they could have a page for configuration purposes on the EFIS but that's about it. Not really useful in flight.

I also agree that a "master module" as well as a nav/com in the future would be nice. Although I think nav radios are an endangered species with GPS soon becoming a de facto standard.

Rat

 

[PilotKris]

Rat just wants a cheap more affordable audio panel...

He really doesn't have an idea for a "better mousetrap"

It's REALLY easy to integrate all those sources. If you only have one Com, just buy a stereo intercom. If you want high quality audio, buy a PS Engineering PMA3000 (about $500). If you want to be cheap more affordable, buy a Sigtronics (about $200). Infact, I've got a hardly used Sigtronics unit (that I replaced with a PMA3000) that I'd sell you for $100.

"Problem" solved

 

[Ratman]

Rat just wants a cheap audio panel...

He really doesn't have an idea for a "better mousetrap"

It's REALLY easy to integrate all those sources. If you only have one Com, just buy a stereo intercom. If you want high quality audio, buy a PS Engineering PMA3000 (about $500). If you want to be cheap, buy a Sigtronics (about $200). Infact, I've got a hardly used Sigtronics unit (that I replaced with a PMA3000) that I'd sell you for $100.

"Problem" solved

And a cheap EFIS and a cheap EMS and a cheap COM/NAV and a cheap autopilot, blah blah blah. Who wouldn't?

What exactly is a "better mousetrap" when it comes to audio panels? An integrated system that communicates seamlessly with the flight instruments, engine instruments, GPS and any on board entertainment? If you are satisfied with what you have, GREAT! I simply suggested what might be a better way.

I appreciate the attempt at cheap insults and personal references thrown in. However you have no idea who I am nor do I know you. Ultimetly, you have no idea what I might want or desire.

I understand you have no desire for Dynon to develop anything that you might not want.

I hope you have better days, I wish you well.

Rat

 

[PilotKris]

Rat,

Judging by your comments on this thread and others, it seamed obvious that "affordable" was the primary motivation behind your request. More "affordable" vs. better isn't, in my opinion (which you asked for), a good enough reason for Dynon to spend their limited resources.

You seamed unaware of the "affordable" options available to satisfy your needs so I offered up a couple of solutions. One was "Gucci" the other was "Wal-Mart".

I'm not sure what you found offensive but I assure you, no offense was intended. I'll edit my messages and substitute "affordable" for "cheap" if that makes you feel better.

 

[jpage]

With everyone's indulgence, I will describe what I think is the ideal audio panel. Nobody makes anything like it.

My requirements are different. My wife is also a pilot. We fly a Cessna 172 until I finished building my Dream Aircraft Tundra. I hate going off ATC frequency so I can open a flight plan or get updated weather. So I really need to have the two pilots talk on different radios at once (yeah, some products do that now).

What about monitoring two frequencies ? What I want to do is route one frequency's audio to one ear and the other frequency's audio to the other. And probably make the frequency I am responsible for relatively louder than the other. Possibly the intercom audio to the ear closest to the other pilot too. My theory is that it will be easier to sort out the two audio streams if I can listen to each in a different ear.

My wife and I always fight over the volume control. It is either too loud, or too quiet, depending who is transmitting. An automatic gain control that really works exceptionally well would be a very important asset. Not to mention filtering out those annoying clicks when the mic is keyed or un-keyed.

For each person to be able to individually adjust the relative volume of the different audio inputs would be very useful - but this is a user interface nightmare, that is too difficult to do in the space of a typical audio panel. However, flip to a screen on the EFIS and use the whole screen to list the sources and the listeners and use those wonderful knobs to make the adjustments. With dual screen systems, the co-pilot would have control as well. So this is something that Dynon could do that manufacturers of audio panels could not compete against.

I want lots of audio inputs, but I don't want built in CD players, XM radios or stuff that supports IFR.

There should be an isolate mode that allows the passengers to hear the pilot talking with ATC, but the pilot not distracted with the passenger intercom audio.

For truely outrageous feature, how about voice recognition that alerts you when you fail to recognize ATC calling you ? And mutes the passenger intercom.

Jeff Page

 

[PhantomPholly]

With everyone's indulgence, I will describe what I think is the ideal audio panel.  Nobody makes anything like it.

My requirements are different.  My wife is also a pilot.  We fly a Cessna 172 until I finished building my Dream Aircraft Tundra.  I hate going off ATC frequency so I can open a flight plan or get updated weather.  So I really need to have the two pilots talk on different radios at once (yeah, some products do that now).

What about monitoring two frequencies ?  What I want to do is route one frequency's audio to one ear and the other frequency's audio to the other.  And probably make the frequency I am responsible for relatively louder than the other.  Possibly the intercom audio to the ear closest to the other pilot too.  My theory is that it will be easier to sort out the two audio streams if I can listen to each in a different ear.

My wife and I always fight over the volume control.  It is either too loud, or too quiet, depending who is transmitting.  An automatic gain control that really works exceptionally well would be a very important asset.  Not to mention filtering out those annoying clicks when the mic is keyed or un-keyed.

For each person to be able to individually adjust the relative volume of the different audio inputs would be very useful - but this is a user interface nightmare, that is too difficult to do in the space of a typical audio panel.  However, flip to a screen on the EFIS and use the whole screen to list the sources and the listeners and use those wonderful knobs to make the adjustments.  With dual screen systems, the co-pilot would have control as well.  So this is something that Dynon could do that manufacturers of audio panels could not compete against.

I want lots of audio inputs, but I don't want built in CD players, XM radios or stuff that supports IFR.

There should be an isolate mode that allows the passengers to hear the pilot talking with ATC, but the pilot not distracted with the passenger intercom audio.

For truely outrageous feature, how about voice recognition that alerts you when you fail to recognize ATC calling you ?  And mutes the passenger intercom.

Jeff Page

Hi Jeff,

This, no kidding, sounds like a Radio Shack project.  There used to be all kinds of audio kits from Tandy that would let you do just about anything you wanted with audio streams.

Sadly, doing this sort of thing mechanically requires a LOT of multi-position switches.  A really cool option would be to do it through software where you could select an audio source and specify which occupants heard it and whether they heard it in left / right / both headphones, along with individually controlling the volume of each source (sounds a lot like a sound mixer!).  

You also might be able to create such a thing using a Linux distribution - there are some really powerful mixers available for Linux, and a huge user community to help you achieve the results you desire.  If you found the right hardware (something with a whole bunch of inputs and 2 outputs and not much else) you could probably sell these things...

Cheers,

Bill

 

[jpage]

The audio mixer part isn't rocket science. A stand alone user interface would take up too much instrument panel real estate. At one point, I was pondering a microcontroller at each person's fingertips, sending a digital control signal back to the main audio panel.
There are a lot of button combinations by the time multiple audio sources are presented and choices for where they are played and at what volume. Not practical with labelled buttons. You would need a displayed menu along with 4 buttons. Does the pilot really want to do six button presses digging deeper into menus just to select a different radio to talk on ? Nope. So some buttons would have to be user configured to select specific configuration combinations. Then it would be too complicated for anyone to use. Sigh.

Maybe someday Dynon will publish a programming interface for their NextGen products and we can write and download custom applets !

Jeff Page