Boot Issue

[Mark_Dickens]

I have two D-700s connected for power to a Vertical Power VP-X Pro. They also have back up batteries. Frequently, when I switch the displays on, one of them (mostly the unit designated as the "MFD") will hang on boot up and show nothing on the screen. I have to turn it off, wait a few seconds and then turn it back on to get it to boot up. I am on version 10.1 and this still happens. I rarely if ever have this problem with the PFD unit which comes on with the master switch. Both backup batteries are fresh and recently tested. Any thoughts?

 

[jakej]

Mark

A simple test - disconnect the batteries & try your test again

Jake J

 

[Mark_Dickens]

I did that and at least for those instances, no issues...so this is a known issue, is a fix in the works?

 

[Dynon]

Does it happen usually on the first power-on attempt in a day or flight? Or can you reproduce it at will by turning the system on and off?

 

[jakej]

I did that and at least for those instances, no issues...so this is a known issue, is a fix in the works?

Mark

You probably have done this but I'd check to see if the serial port settings etc are the same on both units. It may not make a difference but that scenario, with different settings, sure created various issues with a customers dual SV setup until we figured it out by phone

Jake J

 

[Mark_Dickens]

Does it happen usually on the first power-on attempt in a day or flight? Or can you reproduce it at will by turning the system on and off?

It doesn't happen every time, but within a couple power on cycles, I can get it to occur. If I press 1-2-5, it then boots up.

 

[Mark_Dickens]

I did that and at least for those instances, no issues...so this is a known issue, is a fix in the works?

Mark

You probably have done this but I'd check to see if the serial port settings etc are the same on both units.  It may not make a difference but that scenario, with different settings, sure created various issues with a customers dual SV setup until we figured it out by phone

Jake J

I checked and the serial settings are identical.

I have an uninformed hypothesis that a characteristic of the VP-X may be causing this. According to the VP-X install manual, even when a power pin is off, it still shows voltage until a load is placed on the pin. I've verified this during testing. When the pin is on, I get full bus voltage, when it's off, I still show about 10.6 volts on the pin. The VP-X manual says that this is a characteristic of the solid state switch (a specialized transistor they say). Could the SV be looking at that voltage and fall into some state where it never really powers completely down? I can always bring it to life by pressing 1-2-5.

I don't get this problem with the PFD, which never experiences this state. The PFD gets power when the master is turned on, so it never experiences the state where the VP-X is on, but it isn't on. The second display sees this situation every time since I have it wired to the Avionics switch.

When I get home today, I will change the VP-X settings to bring up the second display at power on and see if this changes the behavior.

 

[Mark_Dickens]

Well, so much for my hypothesis. I changed it so that display started up at the same as the first and on the second power up, nothing...a black screen.  What now?

 

[jakej]

That (black screen) may indicate you have lost power to it. Due to the characteristics of the VP-X I'd use a test light between the pwr/gnd pins on the SV connector to determine if there is power there when master is on. I always set both SVs as "always on" in the VPX.

Jake J

 

[Mark_Dickens]

That (black screen) may indicate you have lost power to it.  Due to the characteristics of the VP-X I'd use a test light between the pwr/gnd pins on the SV connector to determine if there is power there when master is on.  I always set both SVs as "always on" in the VPX.

Jake J

Already did that. I reset the VPX so that both displays power up at the same time and as long as the battery isn't connected, there's no problem. It's all about having the battery connected. If connected, I get the "black screen"...if not, it boots up every time.

 

[Dynon]

So what you're describing isn't caused by the VP-X, and sounds like it describes an issue that we've seen on rare occasion. We think that the 10.0 software update fixes this for some cases, but it sounds like not everyone. We have a hardware fix that will fix it, so we can have your display back under RMA for a permanent fix. Know that it ONLY affects the startup sequence and that once you're fully booted up, there's no chance that it will shut back off. We'd suggest arranging an RMA when it's most convenient for you (annual, off-season, etc).

 

[skypilotusa]

I am also having a similar issue...  I have a single 10" SV.  I RMA'd my original and I was given a Reman as a replacement. I had trouble booting right out of the box.  I also thought it was a VP-X Pro issue, but had plenty of voltage.  The VP-X indicated "No EFIS Data" I could see on the VP-X computer page that other systems were pulling amps, A/P Servos etc.  I talked with the VP-X folks and they said it was a SV issue not communicating with the VP-X. 10 hours of flight with no issues... Today the "Black" screen returned and stranded me away from my home base.  lucky I had my laptop to trouble-shoot on the ramp.  The only way to get it to boot was to unplug the backup battery.  Right now I am going to leave it un-plugged.  Glad to know it is a boot issue only.  I was extremely concerned during my flight home it was going to blackout.  My trust level of the SV is only about 50%.  Going out with my breakfast club is a nerve racking experience at this point. I might not get home.  Dynon should I also RMA this unit too?

 

[Mark_Dickens]

I am also having a similar issue...  I have a single 10" SV.  I RMA'd my original and I was given a Reman as a replacement. I had trouble booting right out of the box.  I also thought it was a VP-X Pro issue, but had plenty of voltage.  The VP-X indicated "No EFIS Data" I could see on the VP-X computer page that other systems were pulling amps, A/P Servos etc.  I talked with the VP-X folks and they said it was a SV issue not communicating with the VP-X. 10 hours of flight with no issues... Today the "Black" screen returned and stranded me away from my home base.  lucky I had my laptop to trouble-shoot on the ramp.  The only way to get it to boot was to unplug the backup battery.  Right now I am going to leave it un-plugged.  Glad to know it is a boot issue only.  I was extremely concerned during my flight home it was going to blackout.  My trust level of the SV is only about 50%.  Going out with my breakfast club is a nerve racking experience at this point. I might not get home.  Dynon should I also RMA this unit too?

I've always been able to re-boot the unit by pressing 1-2-5...have you tried that? I may add a "backup battery" switch so I can control that connection. It's a shame to have to do this.

 

[skypilotusa]

The 1-2-5 is always the first thing to try... it has no affect on the boot process of my SV. once it hangs on the boot (Black Screen) nothing but removing the BU Bat works...

 

[Mark_Dickens]

The 1-2-5 is always the first thing to try... it has no affect on the boot process of my SV.  once it hangs on the boot (Black Screen) nothing but removing the BU Bat works...

Your situation is different from mine then...I can always re-boot. Somewhat disconcerting that there are that many issues involving the backup battery.

 

[dynonsupport]

This seems like a different issue than we first thought. If 1-2-5 doesn't fix it, then after you 1-2-5, does holding button 1 make it boot?

The 1-2-5 is always the first thing to try... it has no affect on the boot process of my SV.  once it hangs on the boot (Black Screen) nothing but removing the BU Bat works...

 

[skypilotusa]

I had 10.0 installed, and the 1-2-5 does attempt to reboot the SV, but no slash screen, just black. I have tried to hold the 1 button to see if the SV powers up or down, nothing visible. unplug the backup battery, apply power and the system boots right up. I installed 10.1 today to see if anything changed. connected the BU battery, no boot. unplugged the BU battery and the system booted right up.

 

[dynonsupport]

If your unit does not boot with the 1-2-5 button sequence or button 1, then that is a unique failure and we'll need to see the unit here. It's broken somehow.

As for other customers that have a failure to boot sometimes where either cycling master power or buttons 1-2-5 fix the issue, we believe we finally have figured out this issue and should have some news on how to resolve this shortly. It only happens on some units, and even at some temperatures, so it has been hard to track down. It's been a high priority but still took a long road to solve.

As we have always said, it only affects turn-on and doesn't indicate any increased chance of a failure once running. We'll get it fixed and get you to the reliability you expect from Dynon.

 

[skypilotusa]

Once the unit is hung in the boot sequence (Master Switch ON) Backup Battery attached... Then nothing solves the issue, you can cycle the master on and off, 1-2-5, or 1. The only thing that works is power down the aircraft (Master OFF) unplug the Backup Battery and then power the aircraft up (Master ON) things work fine. This doesn't seem unique since I have read other posts mentioning the same issue, and removing the Backup Battery from the SV system has solved the issue. Unfortunately this is the 3rd unit I have been given and it still has an issue? 2 brand "NEW" units were either DOA or had internal issues (Zero Flight Time). I received this unit in March of 2014 just before my airworthiness inspection... and I was told I could only get a Re-manufactured unit... I paid for a "NEW" unit and it was replaced with a Reman. unit. that seems odd. Anyway this unit seems to work better than the "NEW" units I received. My aircraft is wired and cutout for a second 10" SV, but I am seriously considering other options for secondary instrumentation at this point.

 

[Mark_Dickens]

As for other customers that have a failure to boot sometimes where either cycling master power or buttons 1-2-5 fix the issue, we believe we finally have figured out this issue and should have some news on how to resolve this shortly. It only happens on some units, and even at some temperatures, so it has been hard to track down. It's been a high priority but still took a long road to solve.

As we have always said, it only affects turn-on and doesn't indicate any increased chance of a failure once running. We'll get it fixed and get you to the reliability you expect from Dynon.

So...when will we know the fix?