Bug with bugs, and feature requests

[CGameProgrammer]

I've had a week so far to fly my new aircraft with a Dynon HDX and it's awesome, but I found a very minor bug with bugs and I had some feature requests too.

The bug bug is that if you disable a bug, the digital indicator remains onscreen. For example with the airspeed bug disabled, I still get "--- KTS" displayed above the airspeed tape. Really, it could be argued that that should never be displayed and should only appear when a valid digital airspeed bug value is set.

As for features:

1) I'd love to know my GPS-based height above ground. All the relevant information is available and it already knows how to look up terrain elevation at a given point so we should have height AGL displayable in the PFD and the Map Info column.

2) Right now the Nearest function is omnidirectional. I would like the option, perhaps toggled via a button (like the Filter option), of having it list only airports within +/- X degrees of the aircraft's current ground track when in flight (but always omnidirectional when on the ground).

Basically we do not zig-zag in crazy directions and when we're bringing up an airport it's going to be in the general direction that we're currently flying to so the nearest function should not list an airport 30 miles behind me before it lists one 35 miles in front of me. Probably the most useful arc is +/- 45 degrees of current ground track, or maybe +/- 60, but this could be configurable.

3) The airspeed proximity box is great but I would like the option to display those values in the Map Info column as well, as an alternative to using the floating box over the map itself.

 

[swatson999]

1) I'd love to know my GPS-based height above ground. All the relevant information is available and it already knows how to look up terrain elevation at a given point so we should have height AGL displayable in the PFD and the Map Info column.

Meh. Maybe others think this is useful, but we've been flying for 100 years now without it and I don't see much of a crying need for it.

2) Right now the Nearest function is omnidirectional. I would like the option, perhaps toggled via a button (like the Filter option), of having it list only airports within +/- X degrees of the aircraft's current ground track when in flight (but always omnidirectional when on the ground).
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Basically we do not zig-zag in crazy directions and when we're bringing up an airport it's going to be in the general direction that we're currently flying to so the nearest function should not list an airport 30 miles behind me before it lists one 35 miles in front of me. Probably the most useful arc is +/- 45 degrees of current ground track, or maybe +/- 60, but this could be configurable.

Disagree 100% here. When a problem occurs (not if, but when), I want to know *the nearest* airport, regardless of where it is relative to my flight path.

 

[Eric_Greenwell]

"Nearest" behavior

1) Show airports ahead of me. I'd use Nearest much more often if it did that.

2) Emergency - Nearest. A) if the engine will continue running, I'd want to know the "quickest" (least amount of time, wind accounted for) airport; B) if the engine is not likely to continue running, I'd want to know the one that gives me the steepest glide angle (with wind accounted for).

For 2A, the current Nearest behavior might work OK, as long as the nearest one by distance doesn't have me going into a strong headwind.

For 2B, I will continue to use my other moving map, a ClearNav II, designed for sailplanes (aka "gliders").

 

[CGameProgrammer]

Meh.  Maybe others think this is useful, but we've been flying for 100 years now without it and I don't see much of a crying need for it.

We've been flying 100 years without GPS ground speed yet we have it now because it's nice to know. Same with AGL.

Disagree 100% here.  When a problem occurs (not if, but when), I want to know *the nearest* airport, regardless of where it is relative to my flight path.

Yeah, once or twice out of a thousand flights you will need an omnidirectional nearest option which is why the directional mode should be toggled with a simple button push. But for the other 998/1000 flights the pilot will generally care most about the airports in front of him. For example when I was flying from one airport to another 20 miles away, with zero airports in-between, the nearest option showed me a whole bunch of others before it listed the one I was headed towards, even though it was the immediate next airport in the direction I was going.

 

[swatson999]

Meh.  Maybe others think this is useful, but we've been flying for 100 years now without it and I don't see much of a crying need for it.

We've been flying 100 years without GPS ground speed yet we have it now because it's nice to know. Same with AGL.

That's why it only merited a "meh".   

Disagree 100% here.  When a problem occurs (not if, but when), I want to know *the nearest* airport, regardless of where it is relative to my flight path.

Yeah, once or twice out of a thousand flights you will need an omnidirectional nearest option which is why the directional mode should be toggled with a simple button push. But for the other 998/1000 flights the pilot will generally care most about the airports in front of him. For example when I was flying from one airport to another 20 miles away, with zero airports in-between, the nearest option showed me a whole bunch of others before it listed the one I was headed towards, even though it was the immediate next airport in the direction I was going.

Maybe others use the Nearest function way more than I do...I just scroll the map forward and use the touchscreen features most of the time...

 

[gtae07]

The problem with a GPS-based AGL readout is that inevitably, someone is going to try and rely on it for ground clearance and wind up experiencing a rapid lithobraking event or a collision with a man-made obstruction.

There's a reason large aircraft use radar/radio altimeters and not a GPS-based altitude.

 

[CGameProgrammer]

Well height above ground is not height above obstructions. You can click any point on the map and it tells you the terrain elevation and how that compares to the aircraft's current altitude but again that is not obstruction height, just terrain height.

 

[KRviator]

Unless you are planning a low-level TFR exercise, what practical good is instantaneous AGL to your typical GA pilot? I have wracked my brain and cannot think of any possible scenarios where I may be thinking "I wish I knew my height right now".

As for the nearest, I vote for leaving it exactly as-is. If I have a real get-it-on-the-ground emergency, I don't care that there is a terrific runway 35 miles ahead, if there is a marginal one 10 miles behind me. IMHO, it should be based first on runway preferences, length/surface; then distance with bearing.

 

[rogersmart]

I think real time AGL would be good for situational awareness, yes you can get it another way panning the map and doing some quick math, but why not let the Skyview do the math. If you don't like it toggle it off. You can get True airspeed with a calculation but I sure like Skyview doing it for me.
Last July flying to Oshkosh on Sunday, clouds were getting low, traffic was everywhere, it would be have been nice to look at a number to give me AGL just for an additional piece of the situational pie when I was busy looking out.

 

[swatson999]

I think real time AGL would be good for situational awareness, yes you can get it another way panning the map and doing some quick math, but why not let the Skyview do the math.  If you don't like it toggle it off.  You can get True airspeed with a calculation but I sure like Skyview doing it for me.
Last July flying to Oshkosh on Sunday, clouds were getting low, traffic was everywhere, it would be have been nice to look at a number to give me AGL just for an additional piece of the situational pie when I was busy looking out.

One aspect of computing AGL altitudes is that it really doesn't matter what the height of the plane is AGL, as long as it's not 0 .  What matters is what it *will it be* X miles ahead.  There are plenty of nice, steep mountains where I fly, and I could be several thousand feet AGL and within a matter of seconds to minutes, smack into the side of a mountain due to steeply rising terrain.  You really need a look-ahead feature, which as noted, is already there.

I can think of only one instance where the height of my aircraft above the ground immediately below me is of any relevance...when initiating aerobatic maneuvers, to ensure I have enough altitude to recover in the event I fall out of a maneuver.  And I can do that by just looking at the map and my MSL altitude.

 

[swatson999]

The problem with a GPS-based AGL readout is that inevitably, someone is going to try and rely on it for ground clearance and wind up experiencing a rapid lithobraking event or a collision with a man-made obstruction.

This ^^^^

 

[CGameProgrammer]

As for the nearest, I vote for leaving it exactly as-is. If I have a real get-it-on-the-ground emergency, I don't care that there is a terrific runway 35 miles ahead, if there is a marginal one 10 miles behind me.

Again, you guys are acting like I suggested removing the omnidirectional nearest function, but I did not. There should always be omnidirectional nearest by default but with a directional nearest applied with a simple button push. That is much more useful the 99.9% of the time that you are not in an emergency.

 

[n456ts]

I'd love to know my GPS-based height above ground. All the relevant information is available and it already knows how to look up terrain elevation at a given point so we should have height AGL displayable in the PFD and the Map Info column.

Great idea. The above don't realize, this would be great to help avoid stadium TFRs and avoid breaking minimum ceiling requirements. It would be a nice option which those who don't want it, can turn it off.

Anytime one claims, "it might be misused" or the like, it's a lost argument. EVERY single option can be misused in someway. That why pilots are trained to be....pilots. If we followed the logic of "misuse", none of us would be allowed to fly.

2) Right now the Nearest function is omnidirectional. I would like the option, perhaps toggled via a button (like the Filter option), of having it list only airports within +/- X degrees of the aircraft's current ground track when in flight (but always omnidirectional when on the ground).

That would be a nice option (which not all would have to use). I can't envision how it can done cleanly, but the concept is nice. Every time I've diverted, I've used the nearest button and scrolled and scrolled... Ah, there's one that works.

 

[krw5927]

Again, you guys are acting like I suggested removing the omnidirectional nearest function, but I did not. There should always be omnidirectional nearest by default but with a directional nearest applied with a simple button push. That is much more useful the 99.9% of the time that you are not in an emergency.

I'm trying to envision how/when one might make actual use of such a feature, but coming up short. It seems like this would only be useful when you don't know where you want to go, but you do know what direction you want to head to get there.

 

[swatson999]

As for the nearest, I vote for leaving it exactly as-is. If I have a real get-it-on-the-ground emergency, I don't care that there is a terrific runway 35 miles ahead, if there is a marginal one 10 miles behind me.

Again, you guys are acting like I suggested removing the omnidirectional nearest function, but I did not. There should always be omnidirectional nearest by default but with a directional nearest applied with a simple button push. That is much more useful the 99.9% of the time that you are not in an emergency.

OK, let's take your suggestion from above...nearest airports within a wedge extending forward, 45 degrees out to either side.

Should that exclude an airport that is, say, 1 mile ahead but lies at 46 degrees off the nose?

 

[swatson999]

That would be a nice option (which not all would have to use).  I can't envision how it can done cleanly, but the concept is nice.  Every time I've diverted, I've used the nearest button and scrolled and scrolled...  Ah, there's one that works. 

I'm afraid I don't quite follow this...you're diverting, but you only want to divert directly ahead (or nearly so)? While diverting, for some reason presumably which is preventing you from reaching your destination, you're willing to not know that there's a viable airport behind you to which to divert?

???

 

[Dynon]

There are a couple of reasons we hear that people want AGL. Even though SkyView separately provides glide range, some people have expressed a desire to self-train their "how high am I / how far can I go" senses by having a rough cross-check of AGL that they can check against a gues. Note that you can get that by nudging the cursor just off the aicraft, but it's not as hands-off as an info widget.

There are also procedures / airspaces in places - I think the UK and possibly other spots around Europe - that actually use AGL numbers, so not having to compute that would be useful for folks in those places.