Certificate for Nav and Obstacle Data

[JohnH]

I am a loyal Dynon customer and have help sell and install many of your products. Generally I find your support and technical help and product warranty excellent. Well done for that. I do not live in the USA and have had great support all the time.

I do have an issue that really really burns me badly. This is the issue of the extremely expensive certificate to run navigation and mapping software. To pay an additional $500 for this, I feel like I am really being gouged badly. This hurts. I have worked with Advanced flight systems EFIS systems and they dont require this expensive add-on to have the Jeppesen Nav and Data added. Additionally Nav and Obstacle data is free for MGL, no certificate is required.

If you feel the need to charge a one-time fee for this, then why not simply add a reasonable price to the cost of the D-1000 or D-700, like $100 or $200. Those who dont wish to use the nav data from another supplier don't have to, and you can recoup your costs by the sale of your display units. Many users have more than one unit in a plane and you can recoup these costs at a much more reasonable rate for the user. The user wont feel like he is being bitten in the back after he has bought a great system.

I have installed a D-1000 and a D-700 along with all the fancy goodies including autopilot in a Kitfox SuperSport, but I have delayed installing the Nav Data software simply because of the certificate price. Ouch!! Now I can't even get 30 days free trial because the system says I have 0 days free trial remaining and I have not even installed any nav or obstacle data yet!!

I have purchased the Pocket FMS data at a very reasonable price compared to the expensive Jeppesen option, but am thinking twice again again about forking out $500 for a certificate to run it.

I have a friend you found this out after the fact, he was running nav data quite happily, but could not understand the warning message each time he flew. Suddenly the system stopped working and he was seriously dissatisfied that he had to fork out $500 later.

I feel that this issue really does not help your great company's image and marketing. I certainly hope you can listen to your customers here.

 

[Tomyfly]

See it from the other side!
You get the Skyview System 500$ less, when you don t need the map function. So you can select it if you need this function.
For TL Electronic Integra you must pay for all "plus" software-options:
Autopilot 3 grades
Terrain funktion
Map funktion
and so on

 

[mmarien]

I agree with Tomyfly. I don't understand the logic of building in the cost and charging the users that don't want the option. Software is no different then hardware as far as effort and cost of developing. Just because you can't hold it in your hand like the SV-EMS-220 or SV-GPS-250 doesn't mean it's not worth something.

 

[JohnH]

I can understand the point from the 2 previous replies, but this is not even for software, it is simply for permission to use somebody else's software. We pay for the data from Jeppesen or PocketFMS in addition in any case. Garmin does not charge $500 for permission to use Jeppesen data on the G3X, neither does AFS, nor does MGL. Admittedly MGL is not in the same category, but the principle is the same.

If someone could explain the rationale for the high price for the "permission", I would be grateful.

 

[Brantel]

Up until the latest version of hardware AFS charged $799 for their map features.

AFS's screen that does not require a charge for the map cost $1595 more than a Skyview screen.

Everyone that wants a map on the Skyview pays the $500 fee....not just the people using Jep or Pocket FMS.  Even those in the states that get free data pay that fee.

You are not paying a penalty just because you must use Jep or Pocket FMS. That is not Dynon's fault. I am sure if there was a good source for free data for the rest of the world, they would pass that along to you.

 

[dynonsupport]

John also wrote directly, and this was my answer to him:
------------
John,

Thank you for your considered feedback. I appreciate it when customers take the time to write thoughtful comments, and we take all customer feedback very seriously.

As background, the reason we charge for the software separately is that some customers do not want the Navigation function. As you know, Dynon offers high value for the price, and one of the ways we do this is by not bundling options so customers can choose their own system. The quality of a Dynon system is more comparable to a Garmin G1000, and at lower cost than either MGL or AFS. Giving customers options is one way we do this.

As a point of comparison, customers have been paying $2,000 or more to add a Garmin GPS (like a G-695 for example) to our older line of products, the EFIS-D100 and FlightDEK-D180. So the cost of a SkyView system including navigation is actually the same or less than combined cost of one of our older systems including GPS navigation. We have continued to lower the overall cost of the avionics panel by integrating and offering Dynon products to replace higher cost components. (GPS Navigation, Transponder, HSI, Autopilot and soonish Com radio.) Customers are now paying $10,000 to $14,000 for a complete Dynon panel, with better equipment than they used to pay $25,000 to $35,000 for.

One issue we have had with the separate Navigation software, as you correctly identify, is that it captures some customers unawares. We have tried very hard to communicate all the system components, so that everyone understands up front what the various options are and what the costs are. When we quote prices we try and quote complete systems, and not hide some costs. In fact, I think Dynon more than anyone in the industry is known for being forthcoming about total costs. But I also realize that the message is hard to get across, and we don't always succeed.

..[Some questions for John deleted]...

Best Regards,
-Robert
Robert Hamilton
Sales and Marketing Manager

 

[dynonsupport]

John, I just also read your second comment. The $500 is for the complete Navigation feature set, not just permission to load navigation data. Garmin charges a lot of money for their system, and then also charges for data for which they make money.

-Robert