D100 Startup Fail

[Delta_Zulu]

D100 and AP47 installed in RV6

When the Avionics Master was selected to the ON position the D100 power up failed. I was setting up to do the latest firmware update, the sequence which I followed was:

1) Start laptop (Dell Inspiron 6000, Window XP)
2) Connect USB/Serial adaptor to laptop USB port.
3) Connect adaptor to D100 Serial connector.
4) Start Dynon update software on computer.
5) Select Avionics Master to ON, the result being the D-100 should have powered up.

Normally When the Avionics Master is selected ON, the D-100 will power up right away, but this time the unit flashed on (I momentarily saw the Dynon opening page) and then the screen shut down (dark). After that, all attempts to power up the unit automatically (with avionics master) or manually (pressing the left selection key) results in no response from the unit. Incedently, all the indicators in the AP47 are all illuminated during the attempted D-100 power-ups.

Previously, we did have problems with the internal battery charging and drawing down or killing the ships battery, but we updated the firmware that fixed that. With that particular problem, we hand-bombed the prop and went flying (ships electrical system was charging nicely and we have standby instruments) we noticed that the D-100 did not power up until we were 1/2 hour into the flight.

So is this the same deal? The aircraft has been sitting for 4 months, with a battery maintainer on the ships battery (showing 12.9V on voltmeter) but we suspect the D-100 internal battery is dead. Is the design of the D-100 such that it intentionally will not power up until the internal battery reaches some level of charge?

What is the suggested fix to get this D-100 up and running?

Regards,
DZ

 

[dynonsupport]

So first of all, you mention that your Dynon was dragging down your aircraft battery. That makes it sound like keep alive is connected. If it is, this can be causing power-related issues and should be disconnected.

Second of all, what firmware version are you running on your D100? The latest version 5.4 is the best of all of them with battery charging issues.

Once you've confirmed that keep alive isn't connected and you're running the latest firmware charge SkyView's internal battery by having master power on for 10+ hours, either through normal flying, or hooking it up to your aircraft battery with a charger connected and the D100 powered. Once the D100 is on, you can shut it down by pressing/hold the left button, and it will continue to charge as long as master power is getting to it.

After you're sure you've charged the internal battery, go to MENU > INFO> LEFT or RIGHT > VOLTS and report back what the "I" line item reads.

 

[dynonsupport]

Also note that the battery is a Li-Ion rechargable type of battery. So unless it was left deeply discharged for a very extended period of time, or is otherwise broken in some way, it is designed to go through hundreds of charge cycles, just like your phone or mp3 player.

 

[Delta_Zulu]

Thankyou for the response.

I'm sorry about the AP typo in the lead message. Should read "AP74".

The D-100 is currently at version 5.1.1 and we want to update to 5.4 (thats what we were doing at the time that this problem came to light)

When we loaded the version 5.1.1. it corrected the ship battery drain problem. Haven't had a problem with that issue since, and I believe that the reason the internal battery is dead now, because the 5.1.1 firmware prevents the charging of the internal battery when Avioincs Bus is not powered.

So, are you recommending that we still disconnect the keep alive line?

Also, from your response you are confirming that with the dead internal battery, the D-100 will not power up?

We will certainly set up the aircraft to keep the power on the unit for your recommended 10+ hours, and we'll see what that does.

Regards,
DZ

 

[dynonsupport]

The way the hardware is designed, no firmware version is able to stop the unit from trying to charge over keep alive when it is connected.

So first, disconnect keep alive, even with the latest firmware version installed.

The battery, once it is charged, will not self-discharge unless there is something wrong with the unit or battery.

A dead internal battery will not normally cause your issue, but when experiencing power problems, the first thing to try is to disconnect ALL power from the unit. So, first, try disconnecting keep alive and also the internal battery (it's under the rectangle door on the right side of the unit), then try and re-apply master power. If it does not power up, and you are SURE there is external power coming to the connector (check this), there may be something wrong with your unit.

 

[Delta_Zulu]

OK. Will follow your recommendations with fingers crossed! Won't be at the A/C til the weekend so will report findings next Monday.

Thanks for the help.

DZ

 

[Delta_Zulu]

Well, its been 3 weekends now that I have been trying to get out to the hanger and do the trouble shooting that you recommended and to do some flying, but the weather has not been favorable. But there has been some developments that are of interest.

A week ago the owner of the A/C was flying with a buddy in another A/C and they dropped by the airfield where the A/C is located. He went into the hanger and got access to the cockpit and attempted to start up the D100. It started up with no problems at all!

Then yesterday, the owner went out to the A/C to go flying, and he reports that when he tried to start up the D100, it would not start at all. Dark screen, no response. He went flying anyway and approximately 30 min. into the flight the unit powered up and functioned normally!

This had happened once before, last year, and we thought it was a one time glitch as it didn't happen again (until recently now).

So my questions are:
If the internal battery is dead, shouldn't the unit power up when the ships power (avionics master) is applied?

Or is this all a temperature issue, won't power up when below a certain temp regardless of power available (internal or external)?

DZ

 

[ASI]

I experienced a similar problem this past weekend. The D100 has worked without issue over the past year. After one week of no flying , started up the D100 , saw the Dynon sign on screen, then the unit reverted to alternate flashing blue/black screen. There was an occasional flash of white across the bottom of the screen, which I suspect was the menu bar? Started the engine for a bit , to provide alternator power, but did not seem to improve the situation. Does the same trouble shooting process apply, ie remove/disconnect the internal battery, to get the unit to power up. Seems strange that the battery should take down the unit. If one experiences a battery failute inflight , does the unit go down? or is this primarily a boot process?

 

[dynonsupport]

If keep alive hasn't been disconnected, all bets are off. If the battery is in a discharged state, it can affect the unit's ability to power up reliably.

Extreme temperatures can cause the behavior you're seeing too - where the unit won't power up but does once the temps are within spec. What is the ambient temperature when you're seeing the unit not boot up? There has been the rare unit that has not worked within spec, and in those cases, we're happy to repair them under warranty.

 

[ASI]

As far as I know the stay alive is not connected, but will verify this. We operated the aircraft over the course of the winter on some really cold days without issue. Current temps around 7C, plus its alittle warmer in the cockpit. Assuming at ths stage it is the internal battery, would appear necessary to remove unit from the panel to gain access to the battery pack. Manuals do not document this issue.

 

[ASI]

Just a brief update on our weekend experience. We went flying for 45 minutes , the screen continued the black/blue scenario. Back on the ground we disconnected the DB25 connector , re-installed the connector , and life is good again. We have cycled the unit a number of times, start up is now correct. The question that comes to mind, which pin on the DB25 is critical enough to cause a start up issue?

 

[dynonsupport]

The keep alive wire is the one that can cause this issue. We suggest not using it, as it has caused issues like this in the past. This keeps power on the device all the time, so when you remove it, it fully reboots.

It's pin #2 on the D25 connector, and you may just have a fuse somewhere in the plane that you can pull.

 

[Delta_Zulu]

Sorry to be so late with updates. But finally got to the aircraft on the weekend. Ambient temperature was about +10 degrees C (down right tropical for this time of year!) and the D100 powered up normally. I successfully uploaded the Version 5.4 and we went flying. The unit functioned normally.

On the occasions that the unit failed to power up, it was cold soaked for a long time in temperatures ranging from -15 to -5 degree C.

Given that there is no current draw through the keep alive wire when ship power is off (I have not yet disconneted this wire, but will next time I'm at the A/C), I am of the belief that this unit experienced a cold start problem and not from a low powered internal battery.

Being a Canadian Operator, I would like to know what the normal low limit temperature threshold is for a D100, and is there a possibility of the unit shutting down during operation if the temperature drops too much? I'm sure the unit would keep itself warm from the heat of the components in operation, but not sure!

If this particular unit is problematic at temperatures warmer than spec, it may have to be sent in for correction as you suggested.

Regards,
DZ

 

[ASI]

Further to our blue screen issue, over the course of the last several months the problem has continued to get worse. The unit no longer comes up, and will continue to flash blue for hours. The stay alive pin is not connected, and the back up battery is removed , no change. I did connect the external computer, which does shows a connection on comm1 when the screen is blue, however when the screen goes black it requests the unit/serial cable to be checked for connectivity. Error message also indicate unable to connect to chip #4 , sometimes chip #1. I suspect a power supply issue?

 

[dynonsupport]

Further to our blue screen issue, over the course of the last several months the problem has continued to get worse. The unit no longer comes up, and will continue to flash blue for hours. The stay alive pin is not connected, and the back up battery is removed , no change. I did connect the external computer, which does shows a connection on comm1 when the screen is blue, however when the screen goes black it requests the unit/serial cable to be checked for connectivity. Error message also indicate unable to connect to chip #4 , sometimes chip #1. I suspect a power supply issue?

Your unit will have to be returned to Dynon for repair. Please contact Dynon Tech Support to work through this issue - email support@dynonavionics.com or call 425-402-0433. We have two full-time tech support folks available to work with you.