difficult to get excited about my new Skyview

[Axel]

Although I downloaded

base_map_south-america_6.dup

I cannot see any any roads nor rivers in our region (Panama) and the coastlines are extremely sketchy, to be polite.

I accept that Latin America is not Dynon's market and we are not entitled to the attention US customers get, but why provide a base map at all, when even South America's most important road, the Panamerican highway, is not shown.

Since the Dynon site does not provide any examples what their maps look like south of the border, I cannot exclude that I made a mistake, but the above data base is listed as loaded.

So we only see a flat map with some cities. I wanted to attach a screenshot for edification and analysis, but we know from a previous thread that this feature does not work (7.0.0.1840).

And since from the BRG1/BRG2-thread I learned that I need a second GPS to get my idle BRG needles to move, I will have to clamp a Garmin 695 over my second SV-D1000 - the one with the map - to get what Dynon pudically calls "cultural data".

And even if the Garmin base map is lacking some "cultural" road or coastline - Garmin maps can be modified with tools readily available, Dynon maps can not.

So even at the risk to become the black sheep in this forum:
My excitement about my double SV-D1000 configuration is limited.

 

[60av8tor]

Although I downloaded

base_map_south-america_6.dup

I cannot see any any roads nor rivers in our region (Panama) and the coastlines are extremely sketchy, to be polite.

I accept that Latin America is not Dynon's market and we are not entitled to the attention US customers get, but why provide a base map at all, when even South America's most important road, the Panamerican highway, is not shown.

So you'd be happier with no base map at all?  Somehow, by your posting on this site, I doubt that...

Since the Dynon site does not provide any examples what their maps look like south of the border, I cannot exclude that I made a mistake, but the above data base is listed as loaded.

So we only see a flat map with some cities. I wanted to attach a screenshot for edification and analysis, but we know from a previous thread that this feature does not work (7.0.0.1840).

In that same thread, I mentioned 7.0.1, not 7.0.0.1.  Do you have the latest update?  You mention that you had one screen shot that was saved, but you have no 'screenshot' directory.  If this is the case, please tell us under what folder the picture was saved - just curious...

And since from the BRG1/BRG2-thread I learned that I need a second GPS to get my idle BRG needles to move, I will have to clamp a Garmin 695 over my second SV-D1000 - the one with the map - to get what Dynon pudically calls "cultural data".

And even if the Garmin base map is lacking some "cultural" road or coastline - Garmin maps can be modified with tools readily available, Dynon maps can not.

Looks like you should have done some research prior to your purchase, maybe look for a local manufacturer of an EFIS and/or map data...

So even at the risk to become the black sheep in this forum:
My excitement about my double SV-D1000 configuration is limited.

Granted, some of this may be the language barrier, but I cannot help but get the feeling of teaching my grandfather to use a VCR back in the day with your posts.  I really believe a lot of your issues are the result of user error and/or unrealistic expectations (e.g. the bearing pointer issue)

 

[Axel]

You mention that you had one screen shot that was saved, but you have no 'screenshot' directory.  If this is the case, please tell us under what folder the picture was saved - just curious...

No, I didn't mention that, you confuse forum members.

So you'd be happier with no base map at all?

As I said, I practically have no basemap, except for some sketchy coastlines.

Looks like you should have done some research prior to your purchase, maybe look for a local manufacturer of an EFIS and/or map data...

I cited the Garmin case:
a) good basemap
b) their basemap can be modified by the user

I could have added MGL Odyssey:
http://www.mglavionics.com/html/odysseytechnical.html

But you're right: I took acceptable base maps for granted and didn't research prior to purchase...

Granted, some of this may be the language barrier, but I cannot help but get the feeling of teaching my grandfather to use a VCR back in the day with your posts.  I really believe a lot of your issues are the result of user error and/or unrealistic expectations (e.g. the bearing pointer issue)

Your polemics only shows your lack of arguments. Despite the "language issue" I tried to explain concretely what went wrong and what could be done:

a) map issue
If Dynon does not want to improve their (by handheld GPS standards) extremely poor basemaps, let us modify the basemaps ourselves, as this is possible with Garmin maps.

b) screenshot issue
Please, Dynon, test the screenshot feature before releasing the user manual, otherwise we sit in the airplane seeing "screenshots in progress" and don't have any after landing (my case).

c) BRG issue
As Dynon said in the thread, expecting useful BRG pointers is neither unrealistic nor very difficult to realize. They just don't see how off-route bearings could be used.

 

[dynonsupport]

Axel,
The coastlines and rivers do not come from basemaps. They come from the 4GB terrain file. Please download this here:

http://dynonavionics.com/docs/terrain.html

The basemap is a tricky issue. We can't afford to pay for data in all countries, so in places like Panama we need to use free data. Countries like the USA and Canada have excellent free data from the Government, but other countries vary. As a note, Garmin does not let you edit basemaps. It's that people have reverse engineered their data format and written tools to do things Garmin never intended.

When we're back in the office on Monday, we'll look into the roads and cities in Panama on the base map and give you a screen shot to see if yours matches ours.

Screenshots are fully tested each release. 7.0 did have an issue here, but it was so weird that once people told us it was there it took us days of testing to re-create it. Once we found it, we released 7.0.1. Please make sure you are running 7.0.1 not 7.0. No other users have reported issues with 7.0.1 and lots of people (including us) use screenshots every day.

Have a nice weekend!

 

[60av8tor]

Your polemics only shows your lack of arguments. Despite the "language issue" I tried to explain concretely what went wrong and what could be done:

Yes, I confused the single screenshot from another member's post with yours - sorry. I had to look up your fancy word - polemics. You use a word like that but cannot update your software to get rid of the screenshot bug.... :-?

I assure you I'm not trying to argue with you. I tried to help with several posts, but you're too busy complaining to actually read I guess. From here on out I will save my lack of arguments and spare you my replies. I will merely read your posts for my entertainment.

Oh, and please let us know when you find the nav source that points to 2 places at once - I want one.

 

[Axel]

The coastlines and rivers do not come from basemaps. They come from the 4GB terrain file. Please download this here:

I have that file installed.

As a note, Garmin does not let you edit basemaps. It's that people have reverse engineered their data format and written tools to do things Garmin never intended.

Yes, but I don't think Garmin is particularly unhappy with that: I lot of bikers, hikers and geocachers buy Garmin because it allows them to chart their aunts backyards with WAAS precision.

The basemap is a tricky issue. We can't afford to pay for data in all countries, so in places like Panama we need to use free data.

There are excellent free data for most countries in a project called www.openstreetmap.org.

The only problem is, they are too detailed for aviation use. But you could pick the main roads and polygons of interest from the material, a smart high school student does this for South America in one month.

But by far the better solution would be to provide us with a small tool allowing to produce your Dynon .dup-format from a set of polygon and polyline definitions.

If this tool would accept the same format used in producing Garmin maps (.mp-files, http://www.geopainting.com/en/Howto.html#en) then we could use excellent map production tools like mapedit (www.geopainting.com) and this would solve all our (and your) problems with basemaps.

And to anticipate the unavoidable question "Why do you need to modify basemaps?", I respond, using the terminology in vogue:

Wouldn't it be "cool" to add the new high voltage line in the approach sector to the Dynon basemap or to see the contours of my Pacific Island while overflying it?

 

[trevpond]

Oh, and please let us know when you find the nav source that points to 2 places at once - I want one.

Me too Jon

regards


Trev ;D ;D

 

[trevpond]

Axel

Seems to me that you don't want to be satisfied with what Dynon can do. We Europeans have been asking for what our US cousins get for free for ages,however, it couldn't be done as European sources like to charge lots of money to third party companies to use this info. They went to Pocket FMS for us and the majority of us are delighted with the new V7.1 which now puts us on a par with the US customers.

I hope you are able to sort out your problems, but bear in mind that Dynon are selling their units all over the world and by far the majority of their customers, like me are delighted with their EFIS, but more so with Dynon for listening to our wish lists and incorporating them into the Skyview software for us. Try getting that out of Garmin!

regards


Trev ;D ;D

 

[aerofurb]

Axel, I have to second what Trev has said.

It may be a language thing but unfortunately your posts come across as quite aggressive against Dynon.

If you have bought SkyView and are disappointed with its capabilities, perhaps you should have bought a Garmin.

With the internet, it isn't difficult to research any product thoroughly before you part with your hard earned cash.

Dynon have always answered my questions promptly and you could have asked these before you bought the kit.

Again, as Trev said, in the UK we have to pay for stuff that our American friends get for nothing. That isn't our fault nor is it Dynon's fault (we could always move ).

Not that it'll make you any happier, but today we flew with v7.1 and the aerodrome charts - very, very cool...!

What Dynon has done is work hard with other countries and to come up with solutions so that everyone is happy. Be nice to them and I'm sure they will help you as and when they can...

 

[Axel]

Some posters seem to think expressing their general happiness is a way to respond to my argumentation.

My three reasons to be only moderately excited about Skyview have been technically justified and discussed in three separate threads:

a) displaying an arbitrary BRG does not need additional "nav sources", it's just a problem of integrating the corresponding user interface, as Dynon itself has stated. If it is "cool" or not, is another issue.

b) not storing screenshots despite "screenshot in progress" messages is simply a bug, and one that annoyed us much, because we lost some insight.
Since updating firmware is not your primary concern when you buy a brandnew system, we were not aware that the bug is now fixed (hopefully).

c) if we didn't make a big mistake, we practically have no basemap worth that name, only Jeppesen.
I made detailed constructive proposals how to remedy this deplorable situation, without too much effort for Dynon nor interfering with European rapture.

So I consider my posts constructive and well argued and defy the "happiness posters" to respond on a technical level.

 

[aerofurb]

Okay, Axel, on a technical level:

I have not had any issues getting screenshots from day one of using SkyView right up to the present v7.1.

Dynon regularly bring out software updates (as indeed with most things in life these days), they make no secret of it and the updates are simple to download and incorporate. At work we have to update Garmin G1000 software into certified aircraft. G1000 updates can take a complete day to install because the new software normally causes issues with other parts of the system (fuel gauges, external ADFs etc).

Dynon are not cartographers (to the best of my knowledge) so have to rely on outside sources to provide the best possible information for their systems that they can. They are a business not a charity or public service - one can hardly blame them for not supplying the same standard of coverage for smaller markets over their main ones. That is not a slight on South American countries.

PocketFMS is a European (Netherlands-based) company providing information which works with SkyView to Europeans. Are there any S. American companies that provide the data that you require to Dynon?

Citing your situation as 'deplorable' is not, in my humble opinion 'constructive' and I apologise for being a happy European.

 

[GalinHdz]

Some posters seem to think expressing their general happiness is a way to respond to my argumentation.

My three reasons to be only moderately excited about Skyview have been technically justified and discussed in three separate threads:

a) displaying an arbitrary BRG does not need additional "nav sources", it's just a problem of integrating the corresponding user interface, as Dynon itself has stated. If it is "cool" or not, is another issue.

b) not storing screenshots despite "screenshot in progress" messages is simply a bug, and one that annoyed us much, because we lost some insight.
Since updating firmware is not your primary concern when you buy a brandnew system, we were not aware that the bug is now fixed (hopefully).

c) if we didn't make a big mistake, we practically have no basemap worth that name, only Jeppesen.
I made detailed constructive proposals how to remedy this deplorable situation, without too much effort for Dynon nor interfering with European rapture.

So I consider my posts constructive and well argued and defy the "happiness posters" to respond on a technical level.

It sounds like to fix all your problems/situations, you need to sell your Skyview system and install something that fits your requirements. Anything else comes across as just complaining for the sake of complaining.

My 2 cents.

 

[snowyriver]

When did this forum become such a lion's den? Seems to me he is a customer who is having some troubles getting his purchase to workthe way he thought it would. I guess the "lions" on this thread have never lacked any knowledge or asked a question that seemed dumb to someone else. Doubtful. What I'd like to know is why users that are so happy with the product find the need to be so unfriendly and unhelpful to another. Check the rudeness at the door. It helps no one.

 

[trevpond]

Some posters seem to think expressing their general happiness is a way to respond to my argumentation.

Axel,

I'm not going to apologise for being happy with my Skyview and it is unfortunate that you cannot get yours to do what you want, albeit through no fault of Dynon.

It is difficult for Dynon to provide a fix when the information/mapping is not available freely in countries where their units have been sold and which would result in spending enormous sums of money to provide such a fix. Us Europeans have only just had the upgrade necessary to bring us up to the chart standard that the US have had for some considerable time. Give Dynon some time, they may well find a way to give you what you want.

regards


Trev

 

[trevpond]

Axel,

I meant to say earlier that up until the upgrade to I think it was six, we in Europe did not have any towns or roads shown and I wrote on this forum that Skyview was of limited use for Navigation. Since then we have had upgrade after upgrade but we still don't have Weather or many of the other specs that the US owners have.

Will you be able to receive weather updates in Panama or traffic information - I get my traffic info through a ZAON XRX, not as the US customers do. So, you're not the only one who cannot get all the bits and pieces. Give them time, wherever it's possible, Dynon will try to help (by the way, I don't work for Dynon or any other organisation, just enjoying a blissful retirement!)

regards


Trev ;D

 

[Axel]

we in Europe did not have any towns or roads shown and I wrote on this forum that Skyview was of limited use for Navigation.

At least a clear statement, Trev, and nearly exactly what I say: When I do not even see the panamerican highway on my Skyview D1000, I must carry a 100$ handheld in the cockpit.

But I went much further than just complaining: I offered to provide them the input they need, for free. I created and modified lots of Garmin basemaps and I have the roads, coastlines, etc. in my area.

All I need is an interface/tool to create their proprietary map format from a set of polyline and polygon definitions. I even proposed the format of the input.

And this would be useful for everyone, since I bet, some day you all want to see something on the map, the Dynon updates will never provide, for example, that banana farm in the UK, you want to fumigate  ;D

If this is not a constructive contribution to improve Skyview I don't know what is.

Let's see what they answer...

 

[swatson999]

we in Europe did not have any towns or roads shown and I wrote on this forum that Skyview was of limited use for Navigation.

At least a clear statement, Trev, and nearly exactly what I say: When I do not even see the panamerican highway on my Skyview D1000, I must carry a 100$ handheld in the cockpit.

But I went much further than just complaining: I offered to provide them the input they need, for free. I created and modified lots of Garmin basemaps and I have the roads, coastlines, etc. in my area.

All I need is an interface/tool to create their proprietary map format from a set of polyline and polygon definitions. I even proposed the format of the input.

And this would be useful for everyone, since I bet, some day you all want to see something on the map, the Dynon updates will never provide, for example, that banana farm in the UK, you want to fumigate  ;D

If this is not a constructive contribution to improve Skyview I don't know what is.

Let's see what they answer...

Are you willing to sign up to provide that data and all the updates, forever? Are you willing to validate the data with each new delivery? Will you be acquiring data updates on your own, or getting them from some official source?

If you're willing to go through all the work necessary to provide the data, you might be able to set yourself up a nice little business venture.

 

[swatson999]

"But by far the better solution would be to provide us with a small tool allowing to produce your Dynon .dup-format from a set of polygon and polyline definitions."

BTW, this is a non-trivial task. Although the formatting might be simple to code up, the bullet-proofing, error-detection/prevention, and user interface stuff can be considerably more complex.

Imagine the worst possible dataset being fed into the tool, and it must produce a valid output file...and then code for that case.

Neither easy nor cheap to do...

 

[Axel]

BTW, this is a non-trivial task.  Although the formatting might be simple to code up, the bullet-proofing, error-detection/prevention, and user interface stuff can be considerably more complex.

Imagine the worst possible dataset being fed into the tool, and it must produce a valid output file...and then code for that case.

You not only don't understand my intentions, but you seem to have no background in producing maps for GPS devices. Go and modify some Garmin maps for your personal edification and you will understand what I am talking about.

a) my proposal is that Dynon let me overlay/modify/produce the basemap for my area (base_map_south-america_6.dup) for my personal use.

b) If I see rubbish on the map screen, that's my problem, Dynon will say: "load our map, Axel, you will not see anything useful in your area, but at least you get no rubbish."

c) I am ready to send my map to Seattle (or wherever they are) and they decide to use my data or not.
At no cost and without any obligation for maintenance, of course.

Here comes your ignorance regarding map data in: There is no maintenance for a polyline called 'Panamerican highway' unless they change the trajectory of that road.

I may add new roads, high voltage lines, bridges, islands, villages or whatever and each time Dynon can decide to use them or put them into the trash bin - I couldn't care less.
But at least I will see some "cultural data" on my wonderful big second SV-D1000 screen.

Which currently is not the case: the screen is as dull as a TV tuned to a dead channel...

 

[60av8tor]

"You not only don't understand my intentions, but you seem to have no background in producing maps for GPS devices."

"Here comes your ignorance regarding map data"

What I'd like to know is why users that are so happy with the product find the need to be so unfriendly and unhelpful to another.

You're kidding, right???  Or maybe you're not reading any of the OPs replies.

Always an internet cop :