Dynon Previews Integrated IFR GPS Navigation Capability for SkyView HDX
- Thread starter Dynon
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i don't think it's possible. The IFR certification requires integrity monitoring and accuracy and spoofing detection for the computed position. My guess is that SV-GPS-2020 uses an off the shelf WAAS GPS module, something like U-BLOX, which spits out the position without the FAA mandated verification. The entire code path for the position calculation must be tracable, and that means Dynon would have to reprogram the off the shelf module to comply with the standard or provide traceabiliy if someone else does it. very unlikely IMO. If it's UBLOX - its firmware is propriatary and cannot be modified by Dynon to comply with the FAA standards. Just a wild guess though.
Well, in researching the published information from Dynon on this, it seems that I have answered my own question.
If you look at IFR GPS NAVIGATION and click on the second question "What hardware and data is required to make this work?"
it says:
"To enable IFR navigation, customers will simply add a new remote-mounted module and antenna. "
I read that first sentence to mean that the package will include the remote modular component that includes hardware and software, and a new GPS antenna. I will then have four of them!
Interestingly, on this same page it also addresses timing about FAA certification:
How will it be certified? Will it be TSO’d?
We are currently engaged in the formal certification process with the FAA to ensure full compliance for both experimental and type-certificated aircraft. We are keeping the specific regulatory and technical details confidential while this program is in progress. Upon successful completion of our product and certification programs, this will be a fully approved, legal solution.
I leave it to the reader to make their own judgments as to what that means about how long that process may take.
If you look at IFR GPS NAVIGATION and click on the second question "What hardware and data is required to make this work?"
it says:
"To enable IFR navigation, customers will simply add a new remote-mounted module and antenna. "
I read that first sentence to mean that the package will include the remote modular component that includes hardware and software, and a new GPS antenna. I will then have four of them!
Interestingly, on this same page it also addresses timing about FAA certification:
How will it be certified? Will it be TSO’d?
We are currently engaged in the formal certification process with the FAA to ensure full compliance for both experimental and type-certificated aircraft. We are keeping the specific regulatory and technical details confidential while this program is in progress. Upon successful completion of our product and certification programs, this will be a fully approved, legal solution.
I leave it to the reader to make their own judgments as to what that means about how long that process may take.
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This brings up an interesting question. Will the new certificated GPS include functionality of the SV-GPS-2020 . In that case we should be able swap the module and the antenna instead of adding a new set of GPS, coax, and another antenna.
Well, the current 2020 antenna is much more than just an antenna. I believe it also includes electronics that implement significant Dynon proprietary software algirithms required for the various Skyview/HDX/ADS-B Functions that require a GPS position. It communicates with Skyview using a serial port, not just an RG-58/RG-400 coaxial cable. And to address yiur second question, I'd guess not. Including existing SV-GPS-2020 functionality into this antenna would probably increase its cost significantly over a simple GPS antenna, just provide functionality that some existing Skyview/HDX customers may not need, (e.g., those with other third party GPS navigators - like the Garmin GPS-175).
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sorry you are right. the SV-GPS-2020 is a self contained integrated GPS and the antenna all in one package. I have the GPS175 right now and probably not the main target audience for the new Dynon IFR gps. Hope @Dynon can shed some more light on the hardware details
No worries! I am in the same boat as you, except I am interested in this new product. I also have a GPS-175, but I am attracted to this new thing because it promises to integrate with the HDX Skyview in a more user-friendly, intuitive way than any 3rd party navigator could.
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jakej
Well-Known Member
FYI, & AFAIK, the 2020 antenna will not be suitable for the FD&E (satellite fault detection & exclusion) required for RNAV/V approaches. However all is not lost as you could use it as a ‘backup’ gps if you have a spare serial port, or sell it. I consider they, the SV-2020 gps would command a reasonable price used as against a new unit. 
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.Jakej,
To eliminate the need for the existing SV-GPS-2020, the proposed modifications to the HDX software OS must be capable of utilizing the new remote-mounted module & GPS antenna for all previous HDX functionality that needs GPS data, not just for FD&E for RNAV/V approaches. That would make total sense, and I would hope that Dynon has done that.
To address the idea of selling the SV-GPS-2020, the market for that would be limited to those with a front-end display component capable of consuming the various data output by the SV-GPS-2020 on its serial port. And I do not know if that data is in an industry standard or a Dynon proprietary protocol. Obviously if it's the latter, that makes this a significantly more difficult problem.
To eliminate the need for the existing SV-GPS-2020, the proposed modifications to the HDX software OS must be capable of utilizing the new remote-mounted module & GPS antenna for all previous HDX functionality that needs GPS data, not just for FD&E for RNAV/V approaches. That would make total sense, and I would hope that Dynon has done that.
To address the idea of selling the SV-GPS-2020, the market for that would be limited to those with a front-end display component capable of consuming the various data output by the SV-GPS-2020 on its serial port. And I do not know if that data is in an industry standard or a Dynon proprietary protocol. Obviously if it's the latter, that makes this a significantly more difficult problem.
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I'm all for belts and suspenders, but adding the 8th GPS receiver to my plane seems like a slight overkill. Already got Garmin GPS175, Garmin G5, Garmin GDL-50, Dynon SV-2020, Apple Ipad, Apple watch, Apple Iphone. One of them may need to stay on the groundFYI, & AFAIK, the 2020 antenna will not be suitable for the FD&E (satellite fault detection & exclusion) required for RNAV/V approaches. However all is not lost as you could use it as a ‘backup’ gps if you have a spare serial port, or sell it. I consider they, the SV-2020 gps would command a reasonable price used as against a new unit.
FWIW,
I am currently building my RV-10 panel and using the ACM system. I had held off on purchasing the GPS 2020 thinking that this new module might make that redundant. The Advanced Systems engineer told me that the GPS 2020 would still be required. Among the reasons is that their GPS updates at 5 hz which is used and needed for the HDX system. Typical IFR navigators run at 1 hz…he thought the new IFR Nav module would do the same. Also it will need the same type external GPS antennas used by Avidyne and Garmin.
I am currently building my RV-10 panel and using the ACM system. I had held off on purchasing the GPS 2020 thinking that this new module might make that redundant. The Advanced Systems engineer told me that the GPS 2020 would still be required. Among the reasons is that their GPS updates at 5 hz which is used and needed for the HDX system. Typical IFR navigators run at 1 hz…he thought the new IFR Nav module would do the same. Also it will need the same type external GPS antennas used by Avidyne and Garmin.
jakej
Well-Known Member
IF any of them dares to fail you can always look out the windowI'm all for belts and suspenders, but adding the 8th GPS receiver to my plane seems like a slight overkill. Already got Garmin GPS175, Garmin G5, Garmin GDL-50, Dynon SV-2020, Apple Ipad, Apple watch, Apple Iphone. One of them may need to stay on the ground
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Rhino
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2009
- Messages
- 1,929
Or stop and ask for directions.IF any of them dares to fail you can always look out the window
airguy
Well-Known Member
Actually, you are PRECISELY the market Dynon is looking at for this new product. It's intended to be competition for that product.
Biggiesauls
New Member
Dynon can’t release the IFR Navigator the same way they have released and supported the current remote audio panel announced at S&F with firmware support 17.6 just after Airventure. There are several bugs I have reported to support while being told to wait until 17.7.
With a Dynon Navigator, firmware needs to be “five 9’s” ready before we shoot an approach to minimums. There is no “wait for 17.x” while in the clouds with buggy firmware. I’m loosing my trust with Dynon and Axis is looking fully baked now.
My plane is currently getting the remote audio panel installed. What bugs should those of us with one be aware of? Please feel free to start a separate thread as appropriate.
Biggiesauls
New Member
The 10 o’clock- 2 o’clock comm 1 vs comm 2 function doesn’t work, there is no Spatial Audio support in firmware for enabling/disabling Intelliaudio. Bluetooth will pair but no audio is pass across, no phone call for clearance or music stream. Audio replay is via switch only, no touch screen control. Essentially, the HDX touch screen controls comm 1 & comm 2 functions but none of the advanced features that are built in to the PS Engeneering designed remote audio panel and advertised as features by Dynon. Per Dynon support, awaiting the “fix all” in 17.7, with no eta for the release.
This sums up my Dynon IFR Nav concerns.
This sums up my Dynon IFR Nav concerns.
Janekom
I love flying!
Great news. Following.
chriscalandro
Active Member
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- Jul 24, 2020
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- 180
most of what you just posted aren’t Dynon issues.