Dynon Transponders and ADS-B in Canada

[Spunk]

***UPDATE*** It is my understanding that the AV-20-E is experimental only and is the only 2" display that can control the tailBeaconX. The AV-20-S is the certified version but does not control the tailBeaconX. The certified AV-30-C (3" display) does control it.

Also, I talked to Dynon today and they said having the tailBeaconX for ADSB out and their ADSB-472 for in will work fine.

 

[Rhino]

Your understanding is correct. For certified aircraft, you'd need the tailBeaconX AV-30-C bundle.

tailBeaconX TSO + AV-30-C Bundle - uAvionix

The next era of global ADS-B. Compatible with space and ground-based ADS-B surveillance systems, tailBeaconX is a Mode S Extended Squitter ADS-B transponder and WAAS GPS integrated into an LED rear position light. With global compliance, tailBeaconX is the key to limitless destinations. Extend...

uavionix.com

But you might not need a control unit at all. If you have a Dynon EFIS, it should be able to control the tailBeaconX as the primary transponder. Whether that is still true when you also have a 472 installed is a question I can't answer, but uAvionix or Dynon should be able to tell you.

 

[Spunk]

Your understanding is correct. For certified aircraft, you'd need the tailBeaconX AV-30-C bundle.

tailBeaconX TSO + AV-30-C Bundle - uAvionix

The next era of global ADS-B. Compatible with space and ground-based ADS-B surveillance systems, tailBeaconX is a Mode S Extended Squitter ADS-B transponder and WAAS GPS integrated into an LED rear position light. With global compliance, tailBeaconX is the key to limitless destinations. Extend...

uavionix.com

But you might not need a control unit at all. If you have a Dynon EFIS, it should be able to control the tailBeaconX as the primary transponder. Whether that is still true when you also have a 472 installed is a question I can't answer, but uAvionix or Dynon should be able to tell you.

By Dynon EFIS, do you mean the EFIS-D10A? I talked with Dynon today and they don't have anything that controls the tailBeaconX but I only specifically asked about the HDX.

 

[Rhino]

I was going by what the uAvionix site said. But if Dynon says differently, then I guess that option is out. Sorry.

 

[vlittle]

I won't try to pass myself off as an expert in that regard, but technically you should be able to use the 472 for In only. How to accomplish that, or any difficulty that might or might not be involved, I can't currently say. But I'm sure others here would know the answer to that. In a worst case scenario, you could just switch one off and the other on when crossing the border, since Canada doesn't use ADS-B In. But that would be a serious pain, and you'd miss out on some functionality when close to the border. You wouldn't want to operate both in Out mode at the same time. In fact, it's probably not legal to.

The production TBX App is now available for the huVVer-AVI. This converts a stock huVVer-AVI into a tailBeaconX control head. The App and documentation is available here: www.huvver.tech/huvver-avi-tbx-app/

The huVVer-AVI device is available from MakerPlane. Currently it is preloaded with Flight Instrument software, but I am working with MakerPlane to introduce a TBX version. Otherwise, you just need to download the App and install it using OTA (Over-The-Air) updating.

This is, by a long shot, the lowest cost way of controlling a tailBeaconX with a Dynon EFIS. To drive it, you configure a serial altitude source from the EFIS to feed the huVVer-AVI, which adds the control information and sends it to the tailBeaconX.

It has been flight tested with Dynon D10A and SkyView systems. It was developed with the technical support of uAvionix, who provides the integration documents to developers.

The download is free, but eventually you will need an unlock key to enable all of the features necessary for flight (or biennual transponder checks). The price for the unlock key has not been set, but it will be very reasonable. I am even thinking of making it 'by donation'. I would appreciate feedback on what everyone thinks would be a fair price for the App, bearing in mind the huVVer-AVI is only $199.

Cheers,
Vern

 

[vlittle]

Here is a sneak preview of a video demonstrating the user interface of the huVVer-AVI TBX controller. Note that some of the significant features are not demonstrated, nor is the system settings page. It was created by my manufacturing/distribution partner MakerPlane:

This also shows the 3" bezel version of the huVVer-AVI.

 

[jethound]

What happens if we mount out current ADSB antenna on the top and use a splitter in the coax. Will it work with the satellites

 

[RV8JD]

What happens if we mount out current ADSB antenna on the top and use a splitter in the coax. Will it work with the satellites

Nope. See this explanation:

ADS-B What is all the talk about diversity? - Rocky Mountain Aircraft

Unlike the FAA in the United States, where ADS-B ground stations to cover the majority of their landmass. Nav Canada invested in Aireon, a space-based ADS-B solution to cope with our vast and sometimes inaccessible geography.

www.rockymountainaircraft.ca

"Diversity in ADS-B refers to having two antennae connected to a single transponder.

The way a single transponder system is connected to two antenna functions is through a technique called Diversity. Each antenna is connected to a dedicated receiver in the transponder. When the system is interrogated, the signal strength measured in each receiver is compared to the other and the one with the strongest signal directs the single transmitter to reply through its antenna only. The requirement for two separate receivers and the comparator circuitry is what increases the cost of diversity transponders by several thousand dollars.

ADS-B transponders are also mandated to continually broadcast the aircraft position and information regardless of interrogation. Diversity transponders alternate their broadcast between the two antennas the Aireon satellite system does not interrogate; it relies on this unsolicited ADS-B Out broadcast."

 

[mrbizi]

So, in a fortunate turn of events since I wrote the original post for this thread last year, my avionics installer forgot to buy me the Dynon transponder for my panel upgrade. Now I'll be able to get the tailBeaconX, which has been out since April. It's a great product and currently the best and cheapest ($2499+895 vs. Dynon's at $2375) satellite-based solution. It can be controlled using an AV-30 or an AV-20-E which I was going to buy anyway to have a stand alone clock, Hobbs, AOA, G meter and standby ADI. It runs $895. Great product too. Hopefully, Dynon will integrate the tailBeaconX into the HDX someday.
View attachment 5054

https://uavionix.com/products/tailbeaconx/

View attachment 5055

https://uavionix.com/product/av-20-e/

The issue is that Txpr control via AV20 is not for Certified planes

 

[Spunk]

The issue is that Txpr control via AV20 is not for Certified planes

True, I mentioned this above.

 

[CanucksUnlimited]

I‘m based in Canada, and I have the Dynon transponder with one antenna mounted on the bottom of my plane. I’m routinely ’seen’ by NavCanada controllers with ADS-B before I turn up on their RADAR, and or in places where RADAR isn’t available. (This is based on the controllers saying “I’ve got you on ADS-B, but not on RADAR”. The space based service does seem capable of picking up an antenna that’s only pointing towards the ground.
NAVCAN also has a website where you can input your flight and they’ll tell you if you were seen on ADS-B:

NAV CANADA Public ADS-B Performance Report

Validate the performance of ADS-B Out equipment installed on aircraft with NAV CANADA's Public ADS-B Performance Report (PAPR).

www.navcanada.ca

 

[soarhead]

I‘m based in Canada, and I have the Dynon transponder with one antenna mounted on the bottom of my plane. I’m routinely ’seen’ by NavCanada controllers with ADS-B before I turn up on their RADAR, and or in places where RADAR isn’t available. (This is based on the controllers saying “I’ve got you on ADS-B, but not on RADAR”. The space based service does seem capable of picking up an antenna that’s only pointing towards the ground.
NAVCAN also has a website where you can input your flight and they’ll tell you if you were seen on ADS-B:

NAV CANADA Public ADS-B Performance Report

Validate the performance of ADS-B Out equipment installed on aircraft with NAV CANADA's Public ADS-B Performance Report (PAPR).

www.navcanada.ca

Yup, same for me and I have done several performance reports, all stating well within limits. The constellation is the Iridium network which are low earth orbit and constantly moving above or below the horizon. I’m guessing the satellites are picking up the signal before they are overhead.

 

[vlittle]

The LEO satellites will pick up Mode-S/ES transponders with a conventional bottom mounted antenna, but the best reception will be when the satellites are close to the horizon, rather than overhead. To ensure full coverage, either a diversity transponder with top and bottom antennas, or a dipole antenna (see tailBeaconX) can be used.

An advantage of the diversity or dipole anntennae is that they will be excited by TCAS, allowing the big guys to avoid you.

 

[SenecaManica]

I actually asked a Dynon rep this question. He said they're going to do something about it. They have enough Canadian pilots to start R&R on a diversity Transponder. But no timeframe.

 

[vlittle]

I have had multiple conversations over the years with Dynon reps on this very topic. They inferred that Trig, who makes their existing transponder brick, would have a solution. I couldn't wait, so I met with uAvionix and helped convince them to develop the tailBeaconX, then I participated in the Canadian trials with the prototypes. I couldn't convince Dynon to support the tailBeaconX in software (althogh AFS does), so I developed the huVVer-AVI-TBX control head. This device uses a 2” instrument hole and sits between a D1X or SkyView (or any serial altitude encoder) and drives the TBX.

In fairness, Garmin doesn't drive the TBX either, so my control head is also used with G3X and G5 EFIS systems. Garmin would happily sell you an expensive diversity transponder or uAvionix an expensive control head, but huVVer-AVI device is only $300.

 

[jakej]

Excellent work again Vern

 

[GT3]

I actually asked a Dynon rep this question. He said they're going to do something about it. They have enough Canadian pilots to start R&R on a diversity Transponder. But no timeframe.

That’s good news, lets hope they follow through…