Flying an IAP with SkyView as a last resort if certified navigator fails?

[robby]

How would you handle this situation?

Imagine you're on an instrument flight plan, in IMC, and your navigator fails. You are fine, the plane is fine, but now all you have for navigation is SkyView and your phone. And you are stuck in IMC all the way into the IAP.

What do you do?

The best I can come up with is:
1. Pull up an RNAV approach plate on phone or SkyView.
2. Ask approach for delay vectors to FAF and manually enter FAF and every subsequent fix into a SkyView flight plan.
3. Turn on georeferenced plates on the map if not already on.
4. Fly the flight plan on SkyView, triple checking altitude against the plate at each fix.
5. Use nonprecision mins, since you will have no glideslope (although, if you are in IMC past nonprecision mins, and in this predicament, you may not have a choice).
6. Get on ground, pay 10 aviation units for a second certified navigator.

Alternatively, you could do this in Foreflight instead of SkyView. I only have Foreflight Basic, but if you have the Pro plan you could pull up the IAP rather than enter it manually.

Is this the best option or is there is a better one in this situation? And would you declare an emergency or just inform ATC of the predicament?

 

[GalinHdz]

NONE OF THE ABOVE!

If you have an actual VOR or VOR with GS receiver (NOT Skyview or phone) then you use that as your navigation source and shoot an appropriate approach. If you don't have a separate VOR receiver, you declare an emergency and coordinate with ATC for your best option which will probably be fly to the nearest airport that is reporting VMC conditions.

This scenario, or something similar, should have been extensively covered in your IFR training.

 

[Marc_J._Zeitlin]

... you declare an emergency and coordinate with ATC for your best option ...

OK, sure - agree 100%.

Now, I have only a Garmin 175 navigator in my plane - no VOR, etc. So let's say the 175 goes TU about 10 minutes before reaching my intended destination. I declare an emergency and talk to ATC. They can vector me anywhere if I'm in radar coverage (there are many places, particularly out west, where I can't be, though). But let's assume that the Skyview GPS is working and my iPhone GPS is working, so I know where I am and where I'm going - I just don't have approach capability.

... which will probably be fly to the nearest airport that is reporting VMC conditions.

And my flight plan took me to a wide area of IMC. There were 5 airports with GPS approaches near my intended destination and I had enough fuel to reach any/all of them as alternates with reserves. All were above IFR minimums, but none were VFR. The closest VFR airport is out of fuel range.

Now what? Just GFM?

The question is, is there some reasonable way, in an emergency, to fabricate one's own approach that can safely be flown with ONLY the Skyview. I haven't been able to come up with anything better in an emergency than what @robby proposed - do you have something else in mind for this situation, as a contingency?

And for reference, the Garmin G3X can fly an approach, using the approach plates in it, as a (non-legal) alternative to a legal navigator approach. They make it clear that it's not legal to do so, but it is technically possible as a backup IN AN EMERGENCY. It would be nice if Dynon had the same capability, with the same warnings about legality. In an emergency, I don't care what's legal.

 

[robby]

NONE OF THE ABOVE!

If you have an actual VOR or VOR with GS receiver (NOT Skyview or phone) then you use that as your navigation source and shoot an appropriate approach. If you don't have a separate VOR receiver, you declare an emergency and coordinate with ATC for your best option which will probably be fly to the nearest airport that is reporting VMC conditions.

This scenario, or something similar, should have been extensively covered in your IFR training.

Yes, of course if you can safely and legally fly an alternate approach, or can get to VMC, that is preferable. But this is dodging the constraints and spirit of the scenario. My question is if you had equipment failure in IMC and had to somehow get down through it with just SkyView and whatever else you'd typically have with you.

This scenario haunted my imagination recently when the entire northeast was overcast, and I was trying to think of what I would do if I were up there and lost my IFD540.

 

[GalinHdz]

"My question is if you had equipment failure in IMC and had to somehow get down through it with just SkyView and whatever else you'd typically have with you."

Again the only correct answer is: Declare an emergency then use the phone/tablet/Skyview or whatever you have available to land safely.

Unless you declare an emergency you can't even continue straight and level in IMC conditions without proper navigation equipment, which neither SkyView, Garmin G3X nor phones are. No other legal option exists.

We can "what if" this to death and it will not change the answer. Declare an emergency, then use whatever you have available to land safely.

BTW: Here in NE Florida, where I fly most, GPS outages are not uncommon due to off shore US Navy jamming exercises and training. THAT is why I have a VAL-429 VOR/LOC/ILS as a backup IFR navigator.

 

[Marc_J._Zeitlin]

We can "what if" this to death and it will not change the answer. Declare an emergency, then use whatever you have available to land safely.

And that was the crux of the OP's question - assume an emergency has been declared, and then use the Skyview (or Foreflight, or whatever) to land safely. The question was, what are the exact steps to DO that. And he proposed those steps for using the capabilities of the Skyview - do you have better ones? "Well, just land safely" is not a technique.

 

[aggiepack]

Talk to ATC , declare an emergency and ask for vectors followed by no-gyro approach / ASR / PAR and feel free to monitor your progress on whatever device available for situational awareness

 

[GalinHdz]

And that was the crux of the OP's question - assume an emergency has been declared, and then use the Skyview (or Foreflight, or whatever) to land safely. The question was, what are the exact steps to DO that. And he proposed those steps for using the capabilities of the Skyview - do you have better ones? "Well, just land safely" is not a technique.

Hmmm... there is no "an emergency has been declared" in the OP, which is the only mandatory action in this case but OK. Nobody has an idea of how they will react during an emergency until they are actually in it. I know first hand. I also have no idea of his level of knowledge, experience or comfort so I don't assume anything and only provide the legal answer.

My recommendation is to pick a method, practice it with a safety pilot once in a while and hope you never have to use it. You will quickly realize what method works best for you. The method does not matter but the result, a safe landing, does.

 

[CanardMulti]

I've re-read your scenario premise and it seems to imply the GPS satellites are fine, since your suggested action uses Skyview's VFR GPS system. It also would seem you assume that, when you say "your navigator fails", ALL of your IFD540 capability is actually lost, including it's VHF NAV radio as well. Otherwise, vectors to the nearest ILS would be the simple answer.

I thought about your precise scenario when I was laying out my system upgrade around my IFD540 a couple of years ago, and it's why I made several design choices for the power system. Specifically, I took advantage of its dual power capability and supplied it from two separate avionics busses, with each bus supplied by a different alternator that is backed up by its own battery. The unit has the ability to seek power from any available source.

In my thinking this through, I made the assumption that some nonspecific fault precipitated a hard, unrecoverable failure that inops everything inside the IFD540's box, including both VHF COM and VHF NAV. That is why I have, and apparently you do not, a second stand alone VHF NAV radio. You do, however, seem to imply you have a second COM, as do I.

You talk about flying to destination on Skyview's nav. That is already an exercise in pilot's emergency authority since Skyview's nav is a VFR only system, but I suspect you're well aware of that. I'd suggest that rather than getting to your destination, that you concentrate on getting to the place that can get you on the ground in the safest way. That brings us to shooting a radar approach, mentioned above. It does not need to be a no gyro approach since all of your flight instruments are working.

PARs (precision approach radar) are scarce as hell, and ASRs (surveillance radar approaches) are becoming harder to find, hence having to get vectors to where one might be available. Both require a trained operator on each end to be most effective. If ASRs are not a tool currently in your tool box, I'd respectfully suggest you find a CFII with the ability to get you up to speed. Keep in mind that flying IFR depending on just one box might be legal, but is not a choice I'd make.

Lots of words above; back to a totally failed IFD540 in IFR w/ no suitable IFR backup and no VFR field within fuel range. In that situation I'd have to choose the georeferenced plate display with cross checking altitudes, and get talked down by the most experienced radar operator I could find. If the person on the scope is really good and you keep your composure, you might just live through it.

I would not program very low altitude IFR way points by hand. That practice is specifically prohibited in airplanes with far, far more sophisticated avionics than ours.

Ken

 

[Marc_J._Zeitlin]

Lots of words above; back to a totally failed IFD540 in IFR w/ no suitable IFR backup and no VFR field within fuel range. In that situation I'd have to choose the georeferenced plate display with cross checking altitudes, and get talked down by the most experienced radar operator I could find. If the person on the scope is really good and you keep your composure, you might just live through it.

I would not program very low altitude IFR way points by hand. That practice is specifically prohibited in airplanes with far, far more sophisticated avionics than ours.

I think that you're being a bit dramatic, no, Ken? The Skyview database has all the VOR/LOC/ILS/GPS fixes in it - they're available as names - no need to "program" IFR waypoints by hand/LAT/LON. I just tested it on my system.

Let's take the ILS/LOC 30R into KBFL for example, or the RNAV 30R (since it's familiar to me). My GPS175 goes TU, and it's IMC for 500 miles in all directions, down to 600 ft. AGL. I'm 50 miles from KBFL and I'm running low on fuel because it was one of my alternates - no VFR airports anywhere. This is a specific situation, but in this case I've only had ONE failure of equipment.

So I pull up the plate for that approach, see that a LOC approach is available down to 500 ft. AGL, and I then program my flight plan with AMONT (or LEBEC), then FASTO and JUPEX (if using the LOC fixes - it would be AXONE, FASTO, JUPEX and HOYMI for the RNAV 30R). I make believe that I'm on a LOC/LNAV approach as the OP suggested and control altitude as on any nonprecision approach - get to the next fix's altitude and hold until crossing, then drop to the next. The Skyview will show (or control, if you have Autopilot) your deviation from course and allow your horizontal location to be as accurate as it would be if driven by the navigator - it's only vertical guidance that's lost. Basically, the Skyview is doing what the Navigator WOULD have done legally, for all horizontal navigation.

And in fact, if you felt brave, you could even program the vertical VNAV guidance in the Skyview to take yiou down the Plate's GS angle to the runway. I wouldn't, but you could. But if you didn't do this, you could certainly use the vertical navigation capability of the Skyview to set the next fix's altitude and tell the A/P or Flight Director to go there at some reasonable vertical descent speed - this way, you'd have advice/control over the vertical nav. as well, just as with any non-precision approach.

Now, whether you want to program in the Shafter VOR (EHF) for the missed, Cthulhu forbid, you can do that too.

Clearly, this is a non-optimal methodology, but it hardly strikes me as being "might just live through it". Seems like doing any non-precision approach, but with the Skyview driving the flight plan, rather than the Navigator. It's far less hairy than a partial panel approach, IMO. I'd do this in a second if I had to, and wouldn't feel any trepidation about it, either.

What am I missing?

 

[greentips]

In the old days of steam gauges and ILS/LOC/NDB with DME, as the only options and no battery backup except the ship's battery, I had several hard and fast rules. I assumed the possibility of total and rapid electrical failure for emergency planning purposes.

Rule 1. You must have fuel to reach your destination airport AND an alternate regardless of the actual forecast plus the 45 minutes reserve beyond that.
Rule 2. When getting a briefing (telephone or in person in those days), I always asked for the direction and distance of the closest VFR/MVFR along the route. Rule 1 applies to fuel planning to make sure I had fuel to reach better weather. If no VMC/mVFR within fuel range along the entire route, this is a no-go flight decision.
Rule 3. If the primary nav system goes bad, and the alternates, (main cause in this scenario is loss of alternator and the battery is dead), then point the airplane at the either destination if it's last report and forecast is VFR, and get there, descend to the MOCA altitude which provides an 1000 ft obstacle clearance, and if reaching VFR stay VFR and land. Otherwise, point the airplane in the direction of VFR from the pre-flight brief and down to MOCA, If still in IMC, continue, squawk mayday if there's power, activate the ELT, until reaching MVFR, find an airport and land.

I carried a handheld with fresh batteries which I never had to use in non-gliders but it worked well in the glider.

I kept the KX-155 VOR/LOC/GS and have the indicator mounted below the Skyview giving me both comm and ILS redundancy. I also kept the NDB which is getting less useful as they pull the very cheap beacons, but there are still NDB approaches and they and compass locators which can get you at least over an established portion of the approach in an emergency. I also kept the stormscope (WX900) which helps in WST weather.

So, for the OP's scenario, here's what I think.
1. Declare the emergency, and if no response or the only comm is gone, squawk 7700. If ATC is available, use them. Get the big weather picture and how to get to VFR/VMC within the remaining fuel range. ASR/PARs are good. We had one near my base.
2. With the Skyview and ADS-B in available, take a good look at which way is best weather for getting out of the situation.
3. If the destination can be reached and has at least MVFR, press on, and plan on using the Skyview but if the destination is not VFR, ask for the closest VMC airport and if within range, head for it, asking for descent to VFR if available below as soon as possible.
4. If no VMC is within range, and I have no comm or transponder, descend to MOCA until within range of a suitable approach or VMC and activate the ELT which will alert SAR and if a 406MHz beacon let everyone know who and where you are independent of ship's power situation.
In this option, do what you have to do to get safely on the ground with whatever tools you have.

PS. You might grab a safety pilot and do some hood time with the safety pilot instructed to switch off the IFR navigator at an inopportune time of his/her choosing.

 

[CanardMulti]

What am I missing?

Hi Marc-

No, you missed nothing you would have been exposed to in GA ops. My use of the term "hand loaded" was not as precise as it could have been, so my apologies.

The specific prohibition I was referring to was (in the AFMs) against loading *any* waypoints *for use* after the FAF. The only waypoints allowed for use - per both mfg. AFM and company ops specs - after the FAF were the ones automatically loaded from the FMC (flight management computer) approach database when loading any specific, line selectable approach. The named waypoints were already in the database, but if not called up via the procedure and actually used for navigation *based on the FMC position*, they were not allowed to be used. Why?? I cannot say except that the folks who designed all those procedures (both the IAPs themselves and the specific AFM airplane ops) had and have multiple levels of magnitude greater understanding of the nuances than I do. Trusting them has kept me alive for many years through many situations that tested the limits. I freely admit that I choose to extend that reasoning on into my GA flying so as to enable eventually becoming a really obnoxious old curmudgeon! Others are certainly free to do as they choose in GA.

Comic relief: If you think I was being a bit dramatic about radar approaches, you should have seen MY first efforts at a PAR. Thank God - AND Cthulhu - there was a USAF instructor pilot on the other side of the cockpit to keep us both, well, alive! Just ugly. No, just UGLY!!! (Anybody remember Poppit and phantom runway 36R in the practice areas south of KREE (now 8XS8)?)

Ken

 

[GalinHdz]

I cannot say except that the folks who designed all those procedures (both the IAPs themselves and the specific AFM airplane ops) had and have multiple levels of magnitude greater understanding of the nuances than I do. Trusting them has kept me alive for many years through many situations that tested the limits. I freely admit that I choose to extend that reasoning on into my GA flying so as to enable eventually becoming a really obnoxious old curmudgeon! Others are certainly free to do as they choose in GA.

From one really obnoxious old curmudgeon to another, WELL SAID!!!

 

[Rhino]

Some of us already are obnoxious old curmudgeons.