How much time to wire Skyview

[maniago]

A recent VAF discussion prompted me to ask this very basic noobe question - didn't get any search hits. 

Assuming a full blown dual 10" skyview deluxe IFR with a 430W, roughly (ie in 100s of hrs) how much time am I looking at to wire up this gear?  Are there corners I can cut ie wire up for VFR and fly Phase 1, adding in the IFR bits later? or is this a red herring approach time wise?
Thanks for any comments.

 

[swatson999]

I don't know about how much time it will take to do the wiring, but my advice would be to do it all, and do it right, the first time. Redoing it or modifying it later will be twice the pain in the butt, and iunless youtake extra care, your wire bundles probably won't be as neat and tidy as if you'd done it correctly from the start.

The old adage about "if you don't have time to do it right the first time, what makes you think you'll have time to do it a second time?" is all too true.

 

[dynonsupport]

Plus, the only wires to the 430W are 7 wires that you can throw together in half an hour.

 

[maniago]

The old adage about "if you don't have time to do it right the first time, what makes you think you'll have time to do it a second time?" is all too true.

Well not really.  Its not really a right or wrong discussion.  Its a shades of gray discussion.  If it take 500hrs to get the IFR running and 50hrs to get the VFR running, yeah not sure about you, but I'd opt for flying in a month, not in a year.

Maybe a better question than the original I posted, is:

"how long did it take you to wire up and get your Skyview system running?"....and then expound on what gear you have. 

Just trying to get an idea for planning purposes.

 

[Carl_Froehlich]

There is no time savings by wiring for just VFR capability compared to IFR.
Just the process of figuring out what you would leave out for IFR will take longer than saved. Add to that the "damn - forgot to put that wire in the conduit" risk and you have your answer.

Carl

 

[swatson999]

The old adage about "if you don't have time to do it right the first time, what makes you think you'll have time to do it a second time?" is all too true.

Well not really.  Its not really a right or wrong discussion.  Its a shades of gray discussion.  If it take 500hrs to get the IFR running and 50hrs to get the VFR running, yeah not sure about you, but I'd opt for flying in a month, not in a year.

Maybe a better question than the original I posted, is:

"how long did it take you to wire up and get your Skyview system running?"....and then expound on what gear you have. 

Just trying to get an idea for planning purposes.

As noted by someone else, adding the IFR capability is not like it's doubling or tripling the work, anyway.

It's also going to be a lot easier and less frustrating and error-prone to wire your panel on the bench than it is going to be to crawl up under the panel on your back, lying with your back arched over the spar, feeling around for the connector and mating/demating connectors blind, working upside down to pull a pin or insert one, route new wire, etc. Add in the areas you don't have access to, or the ones you can but say require removing all your floor panels and such, and again...it's much, much more convenient to do *before* flying.

Plus, I found that once I got the plane flying, I didn't want to go back and work on things I'd already worked on...I just wanted to *fly* (which is why my fiberglass stuff wasn't finished for 18 months LOL!).

Adding electrical stuff afterwards can be a royal pain in the butt, especially if you have to route new or replaced wires (usually because all sorts of panels, floorboards, fairings, builheads, etc., have to come off to get to where the wires need to go).

 

[maniago]

Ok, so sounds like its the whole IFR enchilada. That's good input thanks.

So how about some nums on the hours you guys have logged getting the gear wired?

Seems a bit odd that noone seems to want to float a number. What's up with that? :-?

 

[Carl_Froehlich]

Ok - I'll take a stab at a man-hours estimate. I did all the wiring including the GTN-650 harness and audio panel. 20 hours doing the panel itself (I added connectors for everything going away from the panel, including power). 10 hours getting the ADHARS, ADS-B receiver, roll and pitch servos wired. Add another 10 hours for all the stick trim, flaps and such. If you want to include all the panel switches and such, add another 20 hours. Add another 20 hours if you are cutting, drilling, painting and labeling your panel.

Your mileage may vary. This is my fourth panel so I had earlier learning curves.

If you are having someone else build your panel then all you need is a weekend along with a well padded wallet.

Carl

 

[maniago]

Ok - I'll take a stab at a man-hours estimate.  I did all the wiring including the GTN-650 harness and audio panel.  20 hours doing the panel itself (I added connectors for everything going away from the panel, including power).  10 hours getting the ADHARS, ADS-B receiver, roll and pitch servos wired.  Add another 10 hours for all the stick trim, flaps and such.  If you want to include all the panel switches and such, add another 20 hours.  Add another 20 hours if you are cutting, drilling, painting and labeling your panel.

Your mileage may vary.  This is my fourth panel so I had earlier learning curves.

If you are having someone else build your panel then all you need is a weekend along with a well padded wallet.

Carl

Ok, now we're talking - thanks Carl. 100hrs +/-, basically a month. That, I can deal with.

Anyone else wanna add their potato to the pot?

 

[dlloyd]

Carl's estimate is close as anyone can get. Wiring the Garmin 650 to an audio panel could be the most complicated part--have a radio shop like Steinair or Stark do that for you. All the Dynon stuff has color coded wires making things relatively simple. Red wire goes here, black wire there, brown with orange stripe and brown with violet stripe that-a-way. Remember, it is just one wire at a time, wires have only two ends and one is already connected to something.
I just removed Garmin 327 transponder and installed a Dynon 261 in my 5 year old RV7. Moved the displays, cut a new panel. Installing equipment in a complete airplane is painful and time consuming.

 

[swatson999]

Ok, so sounds like its the whole IFR enchilada.  That's good input thanks.

So how about some nums on the hours you guys have logged getting the gear wired? 

Seems a bit odd that noone seems to want to float a number.  What's up with that? :-?

Cause it depends...how much equipment, whether the radio supplier is doing some of the harnessing for you,builder skill level, etc. So it's probably vastly different for different builds.

In the end, what difference does it make? You have to get it done, anyway. As someone else aid over on VAF a long time ago: None of it flies until it ALL flies.

If I were to guess, it would be more in terms of calendar time, and for that, I'd hazard a guess of 4-6 months for *everything*, but it wasn't all done at one time (e.g., wingtip and tail lights were done at a different time than the panel, pitot heat wiring yet another time, etc.).

Take your time. Biggest mistakes I made on the build were when I got in a hurry.

"Make haste slowly."

 

[Garrett]

Have you looked at the Pro X HUB? All you have to do is tell them what equipment you are interfacing and the cable length's they provide the cables and a wiring diagram with port settings. It is plug and play all you have to do is connect antennas and power ground. Also if you add or change something in the future you just add or change a cable not tear up a harness to modify.
http://www.approachfaststack.com/hubs.html

 

[maniago]

Have you looked at the Pro X HUB? All you have to do is tell them what equipment you are interfacing and the cable length's they provide the cables and a wiring diagram with port settings. It is plug and play all you have to do is connect antennas and power ground. Also if you add or change something in the future you just add or change a cable not tear up a harness to modify.
http://www.approachfaststack.com/hubs.html

Since I'm starting from scratch, and planning on using all Skyview gear, I can't imagine that the hub would be necessary or useful really. I do see the utility in a spam can that's got all manner of gear new and old tho....

 

[RV711AC]

I think the key is good planning. Start with a block diagram and verify that you have covered everything you are putting in the panel. If you are not installing something immediately but you know you will consider pre- wiring a tray or just the connectors so it's plug and play later. Adding later is much harder if you need to get to installed connectors. Once you are flying you don't want to be taking things apart to add another widget.

 

[airguy]

I didn't specifically track my hours on the panel wiring itself, but I would estimate 100-120 hours is what I have in my flight instrument wiring, and I built all my own cables except for the Ethernet connection. I've got dual 10" Skyviews with all the goodies plus a 430W.

Have you looked at the Pro X HUB? All you have to do is tell them what equipment you are interfacing and the cable length's they provide the cables and a wiring diagram with port settings. It is plug and play all you have to do is connect antennas and power ground. Also if you add or change something in the future you just add or change a cable not tear up a harness to modify.
http://www.approachfaststack.com/hubs.html

Since I'm starting from scratch, and planning on using all Skyview gear, I can't imagine that the hub would be necessary or useful really. I do see the utility in a spam can that's got all manner of gear new and old tho....

Agreed - but the Dynon hub is a VERY nice addition to have on hand, I would recommend it.

 

[dynonsupport]

Your Forum Tender would be remiss if he didn't put in a plug for the Advanced Quick Panel System in this discussion. The Quick Panel System is from Dynon Avionics' sister company Advanced Flight System (AFS) and is available for both the AFS AF-5600T displays or DA SV-D1000T displays. The heart of the Quick Panel system is the Advanced Control Module (ACM).

The ACM integrates all the (fussy, error-prone, tough-to-fix) interconnections normally done in the wiring harnesses and is also the (fused) electrical distribution bus for your avionics. Each connector of each module in a AF-5600T or SkyView system has its own connector on the ACM so you can just "plug and play"; the cables between the unit and the ACM are supplied. In a Quick Panel System, all of the integration (settings on the displays, etc.), not just the wiring, is already done for you. It's very well thought out, pre-integrated, and tested. For more details, contact AFS - phone 503-263-0037 or email info at advanced-flight-systems dot com.

 

[Carl_Froehlich]

I looked at the AFS website and failed to find the price on this box.

 

[airguy]

I looked at the AFS website and failed to find the price on this box.

If you have to ask... ;D ;D

 

[dynonsupport]

Price is somewhat variable depending on how many, what type cables you need. Suggest you call them and have a quick chat.

I looked at the AFS website and failed to find the price on this box.