ICAO Flight Plan Coding For Skyview ADS-B

[Bruce]

The ICAO flight plan, which is about to be mandatory in the U.S., does not accommodate the Skyview ADS-B configuration.  Equipment code B1 indicates 1090 ADS-B Out, B2 1090 Out and In, U1 UAT Out and U2 UAT Out and In.  We have 1090 Out and UAT (978) In (at least until Dynon gives us a dual band receiver  ).  The instructions say pick only one code.  Any advice on how to file?

I believe that the transponder's extended squitter has an "capability" code.  If so, the flight plan coding probably should be consistent with it.

 

[dlloyd]

I think B1 is what we use until ICAO adds another code. Info we transmit in order to get UAT in is something else entirely. Suspect a lot of people are going to be surprised the day this goes mandatory.

 

[Bruce]

On further thought, perhaps it should be U1 or U2 to indicate to the system that we need 1090 targets uploaded via ADS-R.

 

[swatson999]

Sigh...

Skyview User's Guide,

Flight Plan Codes
ICAO Flight Plans
If your aircraft is equipped with a Dynon Mode-S transponder, a certified GPS navigator, and that navigator is connected directly to the transponder to provide certified GPS position for ADS-B Out functionality, the appropriate ICAO Surveillance Equipment Code is "EB1". The E adds ADS-B credit, and the B1 indicates that you are 1090 OUT.
If you do not have a certified GPS navigator on board, but do have a Dynon Mode-S
transponder, the appropriate ICAO Surveillance Equipment Code is "S".

 

[Bruce]

Steve, that quote doesn't answer the puzzle for me.  I started with this quote:

The SV-ADSB-470 contains an ADS-B 978MHz “UAT Band” receiver that can see other traffic – both ADS-B equipped targets AND radar targets - in the following manner:
a. ADS-B equipped aircraft: The SV-ADSB-470 can detect traffic transmitting ADS-B out messages via 978 MHz directly.
b. TIS-B: Additionally, the FAA’s ADS-B TIS-B service, seeing your transponder’s 1090ES ADS-B out transmission - but knowing that your aircraft only has 978 MHz input capability via the SV-ADSB-470 - assembles a traffic portrait of all traffic that it knows about that are within 15 Nm and +/- 5000 ft. of your aircraft. This includes:
(1) ADS-R (rebroadcast) targets: The FAA ADS-B system will rebroadcast all of the 1090ES ADS-B-equipped targets onto the 978 MHz band for your benefit

I was curious as to how the system knew the receiver type (1090 or UAT) of the sender.  Research found that the extended squitter of 112 bits had 3 bits for "capability," but I was unable to find an ADS-B code for them.  The only capability for equipment that came up was the ICAO coding.

So the question remains, if we transmit B1 1090 Out, how do we receive on UAT 978 the 1090 targets from the ground?

 

[swatson999]

What you said was

The ICAO flight plan, which is about to be mandatory in the U.S., does not accommodate the Skyview ADS-B configuration.

Which is not true.  ICAO code B1 indicates the transmitting equipment correctly. 

You really have two questions: what is the correct suffix for an ICAO *flight plan*, and how does the system know to send 978 MHz data to a 978 receiver?

There's an implicit third question, as well...is the ICAO missing a 1090 out/978 in suffix that should be there?

The answers are: B1, dunno but it works fine for me , and probably.

FWIW, I haven't filed a flight plan in quite a while, since I'm usually in contact with ATC no matter where I'm going, and the system knows about me just fine...I get traffic from the ground stations just fine, because a *flight plan* doesn't really have much to do with what the radar systems and such "see".

I'm sure someone else can chime in with how the system knows to send you data for a 978 receiver.

BTW, you do have to configure the SV system so that the receiver frequency is set correctly (per the installation manual section 11...and if you have a Dynon ADS-B receiver, it's all done for you), so presumably *something* in the ES is telling the ground that you receive on 978.

 

[GalinHdz]

When you initially configure your ADS-B "OUT" source, that is where ATC expects to receive if you have 1090 or 978 IN. All ADS-B "OUT" sources (1090 or 978UAT) will need this configuration setup. To configure this information for the Xponder 261/262 see Pg 11-22 of the SkyView Installation Guide, Rev-Z, V15. Remember, 978UAT isn't part of ICAO, only within the USA.

FWIW: I have flown, and fly, a lot outside the USA and file ICAO flight plans often. The AIM dated 12/10/2015 on pages 5-1-21 and 5-1-22 has the requirements for the equipment codes for section 10 of the ICAO flight plan form. Your SkyView system is actually irrelevant for ICAO equipment code flight plan filing. Now, other equipment that may or may not be in your aircraft can and do make a difference.

Common equipment codes for our aircraft:
VOR/LOC/GS receiver with VHF comm = S
IFR GPS = G
8.33Khz comm radio = Y

Common Surveillance equipment examples:
1090 Transponder, no altitude reporting = A
1090 Transponder, with altitude reporting = C
1090ES Transponder, Mode S, ADS-B, Altitude = E

ADS-B Enhancement with SkyView:
1090 ADS-B "OUT" = B1
1090 ADS-B "OUT/IN" = B2
UAT ADS-B "OUT" = U1
UAT ADS-B "OUT/IN" = U2

So an aircraft with a SkyView system doesn't necessarily change anything with the codes. Here are some common examples, all with SkyView panel:

AC #1
Regular Comm Radio (KX-155A)
VOR/LOC/GS receiver (KX-155A)
Regular Mode C transponder (KT76C)
You file S/C

AC #2
Comm Radio with 8.33Khz capability (Dynon Comm Radio)
VOR/LOC/GS Receiver (VAL-INS-429)
Regular Mode C transponder (KT76C)
You file S,Y/C

AC #3
Comm Radio with 8.33Khz capability (Dynon Comm Radio)
Nav/Com IFR GPS Navigation (G430W)
Regular Mode C transponder (KT-76A)
S,Y,G/C

AC #4
Comm Radio with 8.33Khz capability (Dynon Comm Radio)
Nav/Com IFR GPS Navigation (G430W)
1090ES transponder with ADS-B "OUT" (SV-261)
S,Y,G/E,B1

Note that having a SkyView system doesn't make a difference in filing just what "other" equipment you may have in your aircraft.

REF: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/aim.pdf

 

[GADGET]

Interesting answer to a confusing question that drives me crazy.

What would be the ICAO surveillance equipment codes then for my setup that is:

Skyview 100
Garmin GTN 650 COM/NAV/GPS

I asked that very same question to Dynon and Garmin but still no answer.

 

[GalinHdz]

Interesting answer to a confusing question that drives me crazy.

What would be the ICAO surveillance equipment codes then for my setup that is:

Skyview 100
Garmin GTN 650 COM/NAV/GPS

I asked that very same question to Dynon and Garmin but still no answer.

Can't answer until you specify what transponder you have. Surveillance equipment means transponders for most "GA small guys". Your Com/Nav capability is a separate issue.

The GTN 650 is a VOR/LOC/GS with IFR GPS and a 8.33Khz capable VHF transceiver. So with that and no transponder you file S,Y,G.

 

[GADGET]

Interesting answer to a confusing question that drives me crazy.

What would be the ICAO surveillance equipment codes then for my setup that is:

Skyview 100
Garmin GTN 650 COM/NAV/GPS

I asked that very same question to Dynon and Garmin but still no answer.

Can't answer until you specify what transponder you have. Surveillance equipment means transponders for most "GA small guys". Your Com/Nav capability is a separate issue.

The GTN 650 is a VOR/LOC/GS with IFR GPS and a 8.33Khz capable VHF transceiver. So with that and no transponder you file S,Y,G.

The xponder is the included in the Dynon Skyview suit.

Thank you so much for answering

 

[GalinHdz]

With the GTN-650 properly connected to provide ADS-B position information to the SkyView SV-Xponder-261 you would file - S,Y,G/E,B1. If the GTN650 is NOT properly connected to provide ADS-B position information to the SV-Xponder-261 then you would file - S,Y,G/E

Nav/Com equipment:
GTN650 Nav has VOR/LOC/GS capability (S)
GTN650 Comm has 8.33Khz capability (Y)
GTN650 has IFR GPS Nav capability (G)

Surveillance equipment:
SV-Xponder-261 1090ES transponder (E)
GTN650 connected to the SV-Xponder-261 1090 for ADS-B "OUT"  (B1)

BTW: If you had an SV-GPS-2020 providing ADS-B position information to the SV-Xponder-261 you still file /E, B1 for surveillance equipment.

 

[GADGET]

With the GTN-650 properly connected to provide ADS-B position information to the SkyView SV-Xponder-261 you would file - S,Y,G/E,B1. If the GTN650 is NOT properly connected to provide ADS-B position information to the SV-Xponder-261 then you would file - S,Y,G/E

Nav/Com equipment:
GTN650 Nav has VOR/LOC/GS capability (S)
GTN650 Comm has 8.33Khz capability (Y)
GTN650 has IFR GPS Nav capability (G)

Surveillance equipment:
SV-Xponder-261 1090ES transponder (E)
GTN650 connected to the SV-Xponder-261 1090 for ADS-B "OUT"  (B1)

BTW: If you had an SV-GPS-2020 providing ADS-B position information to the SV-Xponder-261 you still file /E, B1 for surveillance equipment.

Thank you so much

 

[kellym]

With the GTN-650 properly connected to provide ADS-B position information to the SkyView SV-Xponder-261 you would file - S,Y,G/E,B1. If the GTN650 is NOT properly connected to provide ADS-B position information to the SV-Xponder-261 then you would file - S,Y,G/E

Nav/Com equipment:
GTN650 Nav has VOR/LOC/GS capability (S)
GTN650 Comm has 8.33Khz capability (Y)
GTN650 has IFR GPS Nav capability (G)

Surveillance equipment:
SV-Xponder-261 1090ES transponder (E)
GTN650 connected to the SV-Xponder-261 1090 for ADS-B "OUT"  (B1)

BTW: If you had an SV-GPS-2020 providing ADS-B position information to the SV-Xponder-261 you still file /E, B1 for surveillance equipment.

Thank you so much

However, if you are flying in the US, the GTN650 will be configured for 25Khz spacing, NOt 8.33, so what it is capable of doesn't tell anyone how you are operating it.

 

[GalinHdz]

However, if you are flying in the US, the GTN650 will be configured for 25Khz spacing, NOt 8.33, so what it is capable of doesn't tell anyone how you are operating it.

Irrelevant. It provides ATC with your aircraft equipment capabilities, not what you are doing with that capability. Kind of like I have a VOR receiver in the airplane but for whatever reason I can't use it on this flight.

 

[RV9APlane]

Sigh...

Skyview User's Guide,

Flight Plan Codes
ICAO Flight Plans
If your aircraft is equipped with a Dynon Mode-S transponder, a certified GPS navigator, and that navigator is connected directly to the transponder to provide certified GPS position for ADS-B Out functionality, the appropriate ICAO Surveillance Equipment Code is "EB1". The E adds ADS-B credit, and the B1 indicates that you are 1090 OUT. 
If you do not have a certified GPS navigator on board, but do have a Dynon Mode-S
transponder, the appropriate ICAO Surveillance Equipment Code is "S". 

So let me see if I understand correctly. I have a Skyview system with the 261 transponder, the ADSB 470, and an SL30 Nav/Com. As far as the FAA and ICAO are concerned I really don't have anything I check for ADS-B or navigation capabilities? My ICAO equipment is "S, Y" and surveillance is "S", and my FAA is /U? Do I have that correct?

 

[RV9APlane]

Bueller?...Bueller?...Bueller?...

 

[GalinHdz]

Correct.

 

[RV9APlane]

Correct.

Thank you GalinHdz! Hadn't checked for a response lately but decided to tonight. Thanks again!

 

[swatson999]

OK, so now that we have the ADSB-472 *dual band* receiver, how would we code an ICAO flight plan?

The options, per the DUATS tool, are:

ADS Equipment Types:
-No ADS-B Capabilites-
B1 - ADS-B Capable - 1090 Out
B2 - ADS-B Capable - 1090 In/Out

-No UAT Capabilities-
U1 - UAT Capable - UAT Out
U2 - UAT Capable - UAT In/Out

and some other stuff about VDL and ADS-C and FANS and whatnot.

So would we select B2? Because we're not UAT *out*.

Does seem something is missing in the ICAO options:

1090 Out/Dual 1090-978 In

 

[GalinHdz]

OK, so now that we have the ADSB-472 *dual band* receiver, how would we code an ICAO flight plan?

The options, per the DUATS tool, are:

ADS Equipment Types:
-No ADS-B Capabilites-
B1 - ADS-B Capable - 1090 Out
B2 - ADS-B Capable - 1090 In/Out       

-No UAT Capabilities-
U1 - UAT Capable - UAT Out
U2 - UAT Capable - UAT In/Out       

and some other stuff about VDL and ADS-C and FANS and whatnot.

So would we select B2?  Because we're not UAT *out*.

Does seem something is missing in the ICAO options:

1090 Out/Dual 1090-978 In

FWIW: UAT is NOT an ICAO device, only for the FAA. The UAT options were added by the FAA for filing flight plans that operate only within the US. I personally am not making any changes to my ICAO equipment codes, at least for now. I hope Dynon will soon chime in and let us know what we should use when we file a flight plan after consulting with the FAA.