Integral IFR GPS navigator

[jacktunnell]

I think it is great that Skyview will be showing up in some certified aircraft.

I think Dynon is missing the boat big time not having an integral IFR GPS navigator.

It has to be coming!

 

[turbopilot]

I think it is great that Skyview will be showing up in some certified aircraft.

I think Dynon is missing the boat big time not having an integral IFR GPS navigator.

It has to be coming!

I come from the Cirrus world (now flying HDX in a Carbon Cub). The guys over on COPA (Cirrus Owners and Pilot's Association) with early model SR22's are really getting excited about Dynon's announcement to rid them of Avidyne.

Because of panel layout issues in the Cirrus, Dynon really needs to get their hands around a remote mounted IFR certified GPS navigator to make it work. If they do they will have the opportunity to harvest the Cirrus market older than 2008. That is a lot of sales. Not much love left over on COPA for Avidyne.

 

[GaryK]

I certainly don't want to answer for Dynon but whenever this discussion comes up the answer is the same. No immediate plans to offer a certified IFR GPS navigator.
I asked at Oshkosh again, same answer.
My panel has a GTN650 so no issue but many friends are still hoping Dynon or GRT will eventually come out with something.

 

[jacktunnell]

If the past is any indication, they could say no plans today, and announce it tomorrow. I'm just hoping for tomorrow!

 

[gtae07]

The cost to develop such a unit, and maintain the databases, is high.  GRT was working on it a few years ago but I think the project stalled out as they realized how much was involved.  Remember too that the market for IFR GPS in the certified world is a lot bigger than the experimental market--a lot of us would probably be happy with "just" the basic GPS nav and approach function since we have a lot of the other features already built into our EFISes*.  Most certified owners were probably looking for the most capability they could get in one box to keep the total cost down; hence the development of IFR navigators with big map screens, traffic, weather, etc.

Only literally in the past week has a potential market big enough to support a unit like you're looking for opened up.

*Yeah, there's the GPS-400W... it's old but honestly I don't know if you'd be able to get the price of a new unit much below a -400...

 

[GaryK]

The ability to upgrade to a modern EFIs in the certified world is great news. Remember nothing happens fast in that world.

Most of the pilots that I know have already installed some type of GPS Navigator in their certified planes. 430's, 530's and some even 650's or 750's. If you fly IFR it was something they felt they had to do. You can fly IFR without one but most don't.

 

[JoshT]

I used to work on the software for a biz-jet style FMS. Its a massive undertaking. Now Dynon wouldn't need to have quite as many features as our box did, but still the software is very complex. Plus you will have to meet TSO, no matter if its in a certified plane or not.

Dynon won't have any expertise in certifying software to DO-178C either, which is a whole 'nuther ball of fun. Putting something like that together from scratch would run well into the 8-figures. I'd love to see them do it, but not holding my breath.

 

[Fitz]

Talked to Dynon also at Oshkosh and had a fairly I think honest discussion.  The rep I talked to said it is high on their list to do, but the company (which he said is debt free) would have to commit 3-5 million to make it happen. The impression I got was if they do this it will be well thought out.  I also brought it up with a Dynon rep out at the STC 172 panel and he said the fear was that the success of such a product could hurt Dynon somewhat as they may not be able to meet the demand in a timely manner.  We have seen it before when Dynon comes up with a great product and we all want it, but delivery takes longer then we would like. 

I have had the SV1000 in my plane since first flight in 2011 and love it.  In my opinion there is no better company out there.  I have added ADS-B (in/out), radio, AP control panels, and 2020 GPS.  I think some time down the road I will add a Dynon developed GPS navigator.  Of course this is all speculation "nothing happens till it happens". Just my 2 cents from what I heard at the show.

 

[airguy]

Talked to Dynon also at Oshkosh and had a fairly I think honest discussion.  The rep I talked to said it is high on their list to do, but the company (which he said is debt free) would have to commit 3-5 million to make it happen. The impression I got was if they do this it will be well thought out.  I also brought it up with a Dynon rep out at the STC 172 panel and he said the fear was that the success of such a product could hurt Dynon somewhat as they may not be able to meet the demand in a timely manner.  We have seen it before when Dynon comes up with a great product and we all want it, but delivery takes longer then we would like. 

I have had the SV1000 in my plane since first flight in 2011 and love it.  In my opinion there is no better company out there.  I have added ADS-B (in/out), radio, AP control panels, and 2020 GPS.  I think some time down the road I will add a Dynon developed GPS navigator.  Of course this is all speculation "nothing happens till it happens". Just my 2 cents from what I heard at the show.

This sounds like great news - I've got a 430W in my panel now for IFR nav, and I intend to continue flying with that until Dynon comes out with theirs - and if that's 5-6 years away that's fine with me, the 430W does what I need for now.

 

[JoshT]

would have to commit 3-5 million to make it happen

Nope. I sincerely hope they are not making any business cases using that estimate. Just writing the verification cases and procedures alone will double that, minimum. I hope they hire somebody knowledgeable in -178C before they do something that will jeapordize the company.

 

[gtae07]

would have to commit 3-5 million to make it happen

Nope. I sincerely hope they are not making any business cases using that estimate.  Just writing the verification cases and procedures alone will double that, minimum.  I hope they hire somebody knowledgeable in -178C before they do something that will jeapordize the company.

Applying the "double it and add ten" rule I use for cost estimates... puts you at $16-20 million.

That sounds more reasonable, knowing how such things go. Unless they know of another proviso in the regs that everyone else has missed?

 

[Raymo]

My hope is that the Part 23 re-write makes it easier for Dynon to produce and sell an IFR navigator.