Last week I bought Jeppesen avionics data for Europe (aviation & obstacle data). I loaded the data into my skyview and discovered that VFR reporting points and some smaller airfields are missing. I contacted Jeppesen, but they haven’t responded yet and it has gone almost a week by now. I know that jeppesen have data for VFR reporting points and those missing airfields, because they are included in their flight planning program, called Jeppesen flitestar. Since many of the dynon users are flying VFR only, VFR reporting points are quite essential.
Jeppesen Avionics Data Europe
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trevpond
New Member
I will definitely second that.
Odd that it's on the Garmin GPS - reporting points are essential for VFR flying in Europe. Perhaps Dynon could have words with Jeppesen to make sure they include them in their databases for Skyview.
regards
Trev :-[
Odd that it's on the Garmin GPS - reporting points are essential for VFR flying in Europe. Perhaps Dynon could have words with Jeppesen to make sure they include them in their databases for Skyview.
regards
Trev :-[
trevpond
New Member
More on the above note - this now makes it even more important that we can include user waypoints to put in these smaller airfields - they are certainly there and need to be seen on the mapping display.
Trevor
Trevor
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We've passed along your note to Jeppesen, and have verified that that data isn't available in the NavData product at this time.
trevpond
New Member
Thanks very much Dynon, it's really comforting to have real customer support from a Company. So often it's a voice or series of voices on a loop with nothing at the end of it!
regards
Trevor
regards
Trevor
cbthorne
New Member
What a huge disappointment with the Jeppesen Data for “North America”! We in Canada and around the world are paying good money for this data in subscription or single copy use. Yes the FAA data our good friends have to the south does show the odd Canadian airport and Nav aid but not enough to fly by. The Jeppesen “North America” data is extremely poor! I spent time checking 30 paved airports that I fly into and only three had any runway data. All of the rest had NO runway data at all when selected. I then had a friend do the same and he got the same results when comparing to his old Garmin 296. I pulled out my old Garmin 90 with data that was discontinued in 2003, it had all of the runway data for these airports and also had info on lighting available and frequencies to turn on the lighting. The FAA data that DYNON is supplying for USA content is excellent and the “Remarks” folder under airports is also full of excellent and valuable information. The JEPPESEN data for North America however has wiped out all of the value added information that was in the “Remarks” folder for all airports in the US and Canada. I read of fellows calling for editable data but that may not solve things. If we are updating with lousy JEPPESEN data it could be overwriting our edited data and thus a waste of time.
DYNON I hope you will be able to contact Jeppesen and have them improve on this or it could be a game changer for many. These issues will be of interest to the national builder and club magazines and might sway potential customers.
Hoping for better.
Calvin
DYNON I hope you will be able to contact Jeppesen and have them improve on this or it could be a game changer for many. These issues will be of interest to the national builder and club magazines and might sway potential customers.
Hoping for better.
Calvin
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Calvin,
First, please do not post the same message multiple times.
As we have said before, there is nothing we can do about Jeppesen data. It's the same data they sell to everyone else. We're not removing data or ignoring it, and we can't buy more detail either.
A bit of history:
Up to about 2006, the USA military published data on almost all airports and airspaces in the world. They did this since they needed it for military reasons, and since tax dollars paid for that, they gave it away for "free."
Along came other countries such as Canada and the UK, and threatened to sue the USA over this distribution of what they considered copyrighted data. So the USA military stopped.
So for a device made before this, there was tons of free data available for the whole world. Now, not so much, and any data that came from the old database is, well, quite old.
The USA does still publish free data for the USA, since that is paid for by taxpayers and is under no copyright. This is one of the great things that the FAA does: considering aviation data as a public safety item, not a revenue stream. This database is quite detailed and includes lots of information like remarks. The Jeppesen data just doesn't have this. We are showing you all we can, but we can't show you data we just don't have.
If you can convince Canada to give us detailed data on all their airports for free (or near free), then we'll look into doing that. From what we have heard, NavCanada has no interest in that, since they are now a private, for-profit company. If we have enough customers willing to pay, maybe we can go to them and ask what data they do have.
Another option is that users may get together and make data sets, which we are also looking into, but this has some serious issues with maintenance.
We are open to any options that anyone can suggest, or pointing us to any data sources that are more detailed than Jeppesen, but all Dynon knows about today, the only current. maintained database out there for most countries is Jeppesen. We're not a database company ourselves so we're at the mercy of the data that is out there and accessible.
First, please do not post the same message multiple times.
As we have said before, there is nothing we can do about Jeppesen data. It's the same data they sell to everyone else. We're not removing data or ignoring it, and we can't buy more detail either.
A bit of history:
Up to about 2006, the USA military published data on almost all airports and airspaces in the world. They did this since they needed it for military reasons, and since tax dollars paid for that, they gave it away for "free."
Along came other countries such as Canada and the UK, and threatened to sue the USA over this distribution of what they considered copyrighted data. So the USA military stopped.
So for a device made before this, there was tons of free data available for the whole world. Now, not so much, and any data that came from the old database is, well, quite old.
The USA does still publish free data for the USA, since that is paid for by taxpayers and is under no copyright. This is one of the great things that the FAA does: considering aviation data as a public safety item, not a revenue stream. This database is quite detailed and includes lots of information like remarks. The Jeppesen data just doesn't have this. We are showing you all we can, but we can't show you data we just don't have.
If you can convince Canada to give us detailed data on all their airports for free (or near free), then we'll look into doing that. From what we have heard, NavCanada has no interest in that, since they are now a private, for-profit company. If we have enough customers willing to pay, maybe we can go to them and ask what data they do have.
Another option is that users may get together and make data sets, which we are also looking into, but this has some serious issues with maintenance.
We are open to any options that anyone can suggest, or pointing us to any data sources that are more detailed than Jeppesen, but all Dynon knows about today, the only current. maintained database out there for most countries is Jeppesen. We're not a database company ourselves so we're at the mercy of the data that is out there and accessible.
I am a bit confused and dissapointed with what is being said about the Jeppersen data for Europe. Other equipments like Avmap and MGL provide the facility to load 'Raster' data. This means its possible in the UK to load a complete CAA published 1/2 mill VFR map. OK you need to get it scanned or buy it in digital format but the lack of ability to do this this on SkyView when the only option is Jeppersen is not encouraging. Not sure I would have committed to Dynon had I understood the low level of VFR data we would get in Europe. I am by no means an expert but but a visit to the MGL website suggests other manufacturers have successfuly addressed these issues.
Richard
Richard
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Support of raster data is different than a database. You can't search a raster map for a specific airport or have the system tell you you are about to enter an airspace. That is the kind of data we support today and we are discussing here.
We don't have any support for raster data today, but it is on our future feature list. When we get there we'll look into what sources are available.
We don't have any support for raster data today, but it is on our future feature list. When we get there we'll look into what sources are available.
davestephens
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Mmmmmm I am really in two minds now, I have garmin 496 I'm my other planes but because of the future mapping that was going to come out on the skyview I built my panel with no space for a garmin. I have only flown it for about 2hours now but I miss the garmin so bad! Have you got the uk loaded in yours richard?
Dave
Dave
This ”mission impossible” according to dynon seems to be no problem for other gps manufactures. I have personally seen at avmap and garmin, they both contained the missing vfr points and airfield. As I understand garmin etc is adding their own data to Jeppesen database as a customer service. You asked in previous post if we can point out any data sources. Well you need to go no further than to Jeppesen flitstar. There is all data we need. So I guess the easiest way to solve this problem is to convince Jeppesen to release data they already have. It’s very disappointing that you guys at dynon didn’t address this problem before now. Summer is approaching fast, and we only have half database and there seems to be no quick solution in sight.
:'(
:'(
trevpond
New Member
Hi Dynon,
Looking at the various comments from us Europeans regarding the Nav/Mapping on our Skyviews I see that Garmin, MGL, Avmap and other GPS systems appear to have a basemap that includes Towns, Railways, Rivers and even canals as well as VRP's and low altitude VFR corridors.
In most of Europe, experimental (Kit built) aircraft are not allowed to fly at night or IFR at all, so other than for avoidance, airways are of no concern. Airspace for airports and control zones are imperative and of course for joining, VRP's are essential. VFR in the UK is just that and is all we have and so I feel that more attention needs to be paid by yourselves to give us a complete package that we can use on our expensive installations.
I don't think that Jeppesen will be interested in modifying their package, so I and many others over here in Europe and other Continents are looking to you to sort it out.
You have made a marvellous product that we are all pleased with, but we want what you have in the US and bought our units on the assumption that we were buying just that. We all use maps, and it would be appropriate to have back-up info on our Skyviews to aid us in our VFR Flying.
regards
Trevor
Looking at the various comments from us Europeans regarding the Nav/Mapping on our Skyviews I see that Garmin, MGL, Avmap and other GPS systems appear to have a basemap that includes Towns, Railways, Rivers and even canals as well as VRP's and low altitude VFR corridors.
In most of Europe, experimental (Kit built) aircraft are not allowed to fly at night or IFR at all, so other than for avoidance, airways are of no concern. Airspace for airports and control zones are imperative and of course for joining, VRP's are essential. VFR in the UK is just that and is all we have and so I feel that more attention needs to be paid by yourselves to give us a complete package that we can use on our expensive installations.
I don't think that Jeppesen will be interested in modifying their package, so I and many others over here in Europe and other Continents are looking to you to sort it out.
You have made a marvellous product that we are all pleased with, but we want what you have in the US and bought our units on the assumption that we were buying just that. We all use maps, and it would be appropriate to have back-up info on our Skyviews to aid us in our VFR Flying.
regards
Trevor
i'm bit confused with the comments read till now, i was planned to fit 2 x10SV in a new project, actual i've a dynon D100 with avmap ekp IV, works fine, redrawn with 1x10inch SV and 1x7inch SV +avmap but looks not nice, will dynon offer soon something like a avmap or garmin 695 soon?
(order still pending) :-/
(order still pending) :-/
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phvdw - Dynon does offer Navigation Mapping Software, though there are some features (per the above posts) that it does not currently have. At the moment, the Navigation Mapping Software offers direct-to navigation to waypoints that are in Dynon-provided data (us only) or Jeppesen's NavData. There ARE features, as people are pointing out, that other mapping products have that ours does not at this point.
For everyone here - we are listening to your feedback, though we don't have any any plans to announce that will directly address your concerts, though I expect we'll have more information soon. Do realize that what we've released in SkyView 3.0 is only the start of the Navigation Mapping Software, and that the coming months will see it improve immensely with new features and capabilities.
Trevor - The US map has the same data in terms of basemap features/roads/non aviation data. The Dynon-provided and Jeppesen data do have some differences, mostly in some of the nitty gritty airport details such as traffic pattern details, airport services, lights, and so on. And as was mentioned by a customer in a recent thread, the Jeppesen data doesn't have "remarks" like the the US data does.
Were honestly still learning a lot about our non-US customers' needs, and as always we endeavor to support all of our customers in the best ways we can.
For everyone here - we are listening to your feedback, though we don't have any any plans to announce that will directly address your concerts, though I expect we'll have more information soon. Do realize that what we've released in SkyView 3.0 is only the start of the Navigation Mapping Software, and that the coming months will see it improve immensely with new features and capabilities.
Trevor - The US map has the same data in terms of basemap features/roads/non aviation data. The Dynon-provided and Jeppesen data do have some differences, mostly in some of the nitty gritty airport details such as traffic pattern details, airport services, lights, and so on. And as was mentioned by a customer in a recent thread, the Jeppesen data doesn't have "remarks" like the the US data does.
Were honestly still learning a lot about our non-US customers' needs, and as always we endeavor to support all of our customers in the best ways we can.
trevpond
New Member
Hi Guys,
Thank you for your remarks and they are accepted.
In my opinion, the more you know about our gripes, the better - better that is because we know you listen and will do all that you can to ensure that we get what we want in the fullness of time.
regards
Trevor
Thank you for your remarks and they are accepted.
In my opinion, the more you know about our gripes, the better - better that is because we know you listen and will do all that you can to ensure that we get what we want in the fullness of time.
regards
Trevor
Well Dynon I sure hope you do look into this "Rest of World" Mapping issue Very shortly. You people have an Excellent product but as people have said outside of the USA is of no use with the present Mapping Software..! I am In Australia and sorely need VFR Mapping requirments But I am Sure that Dynon will do the best in their Power to find a Solution.........
Cheers John H. :-/
Cheers John H. :-/
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So we're hearing you here, and we're trying to figure out where we can improve things in SkyView to create a better mapping experience for non-US customers. There are a bunch of things in the threads floating up from all of you, and we're trying to figure out precisely where SkyView isn't stacking up.
To help us aggregate some data, we've created a little web form survey at http://www.dynonavionics.com/map-feedback to get some more concrete data from all of you. If you're willing to take a few minutes to fill it out, even if you've posted here, we'd really appreciate it.
To help us aggregate some data, we've created a little web form survey at http://www.dynonavionics.com/map-feedback to get some more concrete data from all of you. If you're willing to take a few minutes to fill it out, even if you've posted here, we'd really appreciate it.
I'm a professional pilot, but I'm only just preparing to dip my toe into the homebuilding arena. I've been following the threads here for a couple of weeks.
It appears to me that there is a very strong group of enthusiasts willing to put in some amount of time and effort each, the perfect group for a wiki.
Is it possible to have an additional and optional database that is put together over time by individual contributions, that would then blend with the rest of the information on the nav display?
It appears to me that there is a very strong group of enthusiasts willing to put in some amount of time and effort each, the perfect group for a wiki.
Is it possible to have an additional and optional database that is put together over time by individual contributions, that would then blend with the rest of the information on the nav display?