Letter to Dynon, we need a zoom meeting about Auto Pilot.

[dominikos]

If the 30k and more expensive yearly subscriptions are not prohibitive for you - then based on the rest of your post, I would say Garmin is the way to go. Dynon has really not done well with their certified efforts - certified code is over 2 years behind their current software release, and the way they have handled the Auto Pilot has been terrible.

I wish it was that simple… I could do Dynon installation in one pass, Garmin will take 3 years of gradual upgrades and I might never get to single screen and new panel - G3X and stay with GI275s. Really hoping that Dynon will start moving and communicating their plans… I didn’t want to hijack the thread... Just trying to add incentive for Dynon to engage.

 

[chriscalandro]

I started on IFR training a few months back. I cannot imagine safe IFR one pilot flying in IMC without AP.

Sounds like maybe IFR isn’t for you. Not if you need an autopilot to be able to fly your airplane...

yes it makes it easier. No it isn’t and shouldn’t be a requirement.

 

[dominikos]

Harsh, I guess

Sounds like maybe IFR isn’t for you. Not if you need an autopilot to be able to fly your airplane...

yes it makes it easier. No it isn’t and shouldn’t be a requirement.

Harsh, I guess, I should have worded this differently. Still if I'm spending money on panel upgrade, and plan on IFR and long x-country flying, AP is a must.

 

[Brent Dana]

Bonanzas are hard to fly ifr. The recommendation is wheels down, without an auto pilot. And skippy, think about this! If you a part 91 operator, and doing a charter in any plane, you must have a working auto pilot, or a co- pilot. I can fly it, its just the workload is very exhausting, and at the end of the day, i dont need another job! not when i can have right equipment, and be safer, smarter and less fatigued at the end of my trip. Suggest you watch some of the faa, stories on their site. Know why most crashes happen in private planes? Loss of vacuum pump in imc conditions, from their, the IFR guys cannot handle the plane, even with other equipment on board. So go ahead and try that next time, cover your vaucuum gauges, turn off the auto pilot, you might not be the hot shot you think you are, when their is an issue That may come up. Just sayin.

 

[Leonard]

I fully agree that autopilot will greatly enhance single pilot IFR. Workload reduction in IMC, itself is worth every penny. How good you are as a pilot is not relevant, humans make mistakes.. an extra layer of ‘fail safe’ should be embraced.

 

[uvaplane]

To reattck…

I have a PA-28 down for refurb. My aircraft is a smaller and simpler version of a previously approved autopilot (PA-34). I have a double screen with the works and Avidyne IFD 540. And a blank plate.
I have an A&P/IA, avionics team, and DAR ready to work it.
I am happy to delay by many months if it means not having to reopen the aircraft later. I’d prefer one and done, not kinda-done, fly, ground, done.
My PA-28 peers would no doubt appreciate the contribution!
I emailed Dynon - and received a very nice email declining the offer. I’ll let them repost their response here.
In short, $25k+ to Dynon so far, and still don’t have even a simple wing leveler button to reassure my spouse in case of an upset.
Dynon, please trust your customers. Let us help you help us.

 

[Dynon]

We'll have a more thorough update in a few days, but, we TRULY WISH an A&P/IA, avionics team/shop, and DAR were enough of an assist to make a dent here. We'd be farming projects out in droves. In reality, the complexities of autopilot design require deep mechanical engineering expertise, analysis, SkyView integration, a formal flight test program, high bandwidth FAA certification communication, and really can't be done outside an engineering organization without a lot of both depth and breadth. We've actually tried this route more than once so far, and the projects have ended up entirely inside of Dynon before the end. It's one of the reasons (but not the only one) that some of the projects have slipped date-wise, when we've needed to bring those partnered projects in-house when we didn't think we'd need to at the outset.

 

[Leonard]

We'll have a more thorough update in a few days, but, we TRULY WISH an A&P/IA, avionics team/shop, and DAR were enough of an assist to make a dent here. We'd be farming projects out in droves. In reality, the complexities of autopilot design require deep mechanical engineering expertise, analysis, SkyView integration, a formal flight test program, high bandwidth FAA certification communication, and really can't be done outside an engineering organization without a lot of both depth and breadth. We've actually tried this route more than once so far, and the projects have ended up entirely inside of Dynon before the end. It's one of the reasons (but not the only one) that some of the projects have slipped date-wise, when we've needed to bring those partnered projects in-house when we didn't think we'd need to at the outset.

Appreciate the response! Looking forward to further updates!

 

[dominikos]

We'll have a more thorough update in a few days, but, we TRULY WISH an A&P/IA, avionics team/shop, and DAR were enough of an assist to make a dent here. We'd be farming projects out in droves. In reality, the complexities of autopilot design require deep mechanical engineering expertise, analysis, SkyView integration, a formal flight test program, high bandwidth FAA certification communication, and really can't be done outside an engineering organization without a lot of both depth and breadth. We've actually tried this route more than once so far, and the projects have ended up entirely inside of Dynon before the end. It's one of the reasons (but not the only one) that some of the projects have slipped date-wise, when we've needed to bring those partnered projects in-house when we didn't think we'd need to at the outset.

@Dynon, would you be able to share any update as hinted a week ago?

 

[JohnAJohnson]

We'll have a more thorough update in a few days, but, we TRULY WISH an A&P/IA, avionics team/shop, and DAR were enough of an assist to make a dent here. We'd be farming projects out in droves. In reality, the complexities of autopilot design require deep mechanical engineering expertise, analysis, SkyView integration, a formal flight test program, high bandwidth FAA certification communication, and really can't be done outside an engineering organization without a lot of both depth and breadth. We've actually tried this route more than once so far, and the projects have ended up entirely inside of Dynon before the end. It's one of the reasons (but not the only one) that some of the projects have slipped date-wise, when we've needed to bring those partnered projects in-house when we didn't think we'd need to at the outset.

It is discouraging for those of us with Skyview systems installed sans autopilot. STEC talks about their 3100 certification process with statements like, "“In less than 10 months, we were able to certify the 3100 in more than 100 airframes...". Garmin has a long list of planes the GFC500 can be installed in, and the number of planes they have in development outnumber your total offerings plus planes you have in development. Not trying to be cruel, just asking you to consider that it may take a paradigm shift to get some autopilot certification traction.

You have everything you need to crush your competition except the autopilot. If it means renting a hangar in Mineral Wells, Texas, or Olathe, Kansas so you can have access to a friendly FAA team and/or a workforce that knows how to get this job done, please just do it already.

 

[Corefile]

It is discouraging for those of us with Skyview systems installed sans autopilot. STEC talks about their 3100 certification process with statements like, "“In less than 10 months, we were able to certify the 3100 in more than 100 airframes...". Garmin has a long list of planes the GFC500 can be installed in, and the number of planes they have in development outnumber your total offerings plus planes you have in development. Not trying to be cruel, just asking you to consider that it may take a paradigm shift to get some autopilot certification traction.

You have everything you need to crush your competition except the autopilot. If it means renting a hangar in Mineral Wells, Texas, or Olathe, Kansas so you can have access to a friendly FAA team and/or a workforce that knows how to get this job done, please just do it already.

Well said - but its not just the AP...They have not updated the software for the certified Skyview in over 2 year, the AP certification process or lack there of is another. The excuse of Covid or because of the super max the FAA has slowed down approvals, other vendors are finding ways to make progress.. And the communication from Dynon has been terrible - and misleading at times. Just seems like they are struggling to make the jump from experimental to certified company. At this point I'm pot committed... I'm hoping they are able to make this transition as a company.. but my confidence is not high that they will.

 

[uvaplane]

So, most of us are engineers, technical editors, attorneys, and maybe the occasional doctor.

Can’t this be reduced to a manual, a team of volunteers with their own aircraft, and a project manager or two, all with signed NDAs and free equipment as compensation? This has been done thousands of times on the experimental side…. Time to find a FSDO that’ll play nice.
But yes, without AP, SkyView is a 80% solution at best. Use the team of volunteer experts you have, and crowdsource this.

#NotThatHard #SorryForRanting

 

[Dynon]

We've posted an update on this topic in a fresh thread here:

An update on Dynon Certified projects

To our customers, We endeavor to be honest with our product schedules and aircraft autopilot expectations, and have updated the upcoming autopilot approvals to indicate when things change. But, we could have better set expectations, and better explained why dates have slipped and why airplane...

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