Mode S "N" number not pinging. Says I'm Russian?

[Rdone]

Maybe try updating the Skyview SW and, the transponder SW. these are done separately. Something might be out of synch.

That's a good idea. I just downloaded the 2019 transponder update and will try that. I previously downloaded the 3/26/20 software package but it doesn't say anything about transponders in that one.

The problem with these attempts at a fix is there isn't any way for me to know if it worked other then having the transponder guy come out and run his test again. Anybody know of an easy hack to ping a transponder to see what it's reporting?

 

[kellym]

What software version does your 261 transponder have? What software version is you Skyview running?
The last software update was June of 2019, vers 15.4.7, and the latest transponder I believe is vers. 2.11.
You have to update the transponder separately from the Skyview update.

 

[GalinHdz]

Yes, correct. This is the correct hex for our N number according to the FAA.

So did it pass the test with the new code, assuming you don't have anything in the flight ID section?

Anybody know of an easy hack to ping a transponder to see what it's reporting?

1 - Take a flight around your area and check FlightAware to see what they report as your tail number.
2 - Find a friend that has ADS-B "IN" capability and see what shows up on their display.

 

[Rdone]

I've got the latest Skyview update installed but I'm fuzzy on the transponder update. The only thing I see mentioning a transponder is included in this update...

SkyView-15.4.7.5568-dynon_update_Classic.dup, described as "SkyView v14 and later software contain a software update to the SV-XPNDR-26X transponders to support SV-GPS-2020 operation. This update also enables the continued reception of TIS-B (ADS-B-based) traffic after early 2016. This update is not automatically sent to the transponder, and must be manually started after the first time you update to SkyView v14 or later by going to the TRANSPONDER SETUP menu in SkyView. See the SkyView System Installation Guide for details on how to update your transponder. "

Is this what everyone is talking about?

By the way thanks to everyone for your efforts to help me.

 

[Rdone]

So did it pass the test with the new code, assuming you don't have anything in the flight ID section?


Take a flight around your area and check FlightAware to see what they picked up as your tail number.

I have an airworthy inspection scheduled for next week which is why I'm scrambling to figure this out. Not able to fly until I have that.

I'll have to call the transponder test guy when I think I've found a solution. As of yet I don't think we have.

 

[GalinHdz]

I have an airworthy inspection scheduled for next week which is why I'm scrambling to figure this out. Not able to fly until I have that.

I'll have to call the transponder test guy when I think I've found a solution. As of yet I don't think we have.

Don't need to fly for method #2. Find someone with a portable dual band STRATUX/STRATUS receiver and a tablet.

 

[RV8JD]

I have an airworthy inspection scheduled for next week which is why I'm scrambling to figure this out. Not able to fly until I have that.

I understand your desire to get this fixed. But note that the transponder certification is a "Flight" requirement, NOT an Airworthiness requirement. So your Airworthiness inspection will not be affected if it's not fixed by then.

BTW, what is a "RUNAAS ONE"?

 

[kellym]

I've got the latest Skyview update installed but I'm fuzzy on the transponder update. The only thing I see mentioning a transponder is included in this update...

SkyView-15.4.7.5568-dynon_update_Classic.dup, described as "SkyView v14 and later software contain a software update to the SV-XPNDR-26X transponders to support SV-GPS-2020 operation. This update also enables the continued reception of TIS-B (ADS-B-based) traffic after early 2016. This update is not automatically sent to the transponder, and must be manually started after the first time you update to SkyView v14 or later by going to the TRANSPONDER SETUP menu in SkyView. See the SkyView System Installation Guide for details on how to update your transponder. "

Is this what everyone is talking about?

By the way thanks to everyone for your efforts to help me.

Yes. You have to do the transponder update through the transponder setup. IIRC, if it already is at 2.07 or 2.08, it is probably okay, but I think 2.11 is the latest version.

 

[Rdone]

I understand your desire to get this fixed. But note that the transponder certification is a "Flight" requirement, NOT an Airworthiness requirement. So your Airworthiness inspection will not be affected if it's not fixed by then.

BTW, what is a "RUNAAS ONE"?

Yes, the DAR was willing to come and do the inspection but after sending his paperwork to the fisdo he called back and said the FAA isn't taking apps right now due to the Corona shut down.

The plane is a Harmon Rocket II. It was registered that way before me.

 

[Rdone]

Yes. You have to do the transponder update through the transponder setup. IIRC, if it already is at 2.07 or 2.08, it is probably okay, but I think 2.11 is the latest version.

Thanks, yes I've finally figured out how to know which version I have and it is 2.11.

I used a friends Stratus ads-b receiver yesterday and it showed my correct tail number and hex code. I sent this to the transponder test guy and his reply was "The picture that you enclosed is ADS-B data. That is not the same as transponder data. If you look at the pic that you took of my tester on the day I visited, you can see that Flight ID being read out on my tester also showed the correct tail number. I guess I am saying that the data is inconclusive at this time."

I honestly don't understand what he means by "transponder data".

He's now sheltering in place so who knows if I'll ever get this plane in the air.

 

[GalinHdz]

Thanks, yes I've finally figured out how to know which version I have and it is 2.11.

I used a friends Stratus ads-b receiver yesterday and it showed my correct tail number and hex code. I sent this to the transponder test guy and his reply was "The picture that you enclosed is ADS-B data. That is not the same as transponder data. If you look at the pic that you took of my tester on the day I visited, you can see that Flight ID being read out on my tester also showed the correct tail number. I guess I am saying that the data is inconclusive at this time."

I honestly don't understand what he means by "transponder data".

He's now sheltering in place so who knows if I'll ever get this plane in the air.

Well your ADS-B data is being transmitted via your DYNON SV-XPNDR-261 transponder. If you show the correct tail number then your transponder is sending out the correct tail number. In the transponder data stream, Flight ID is not the same as Tail Number and your avionics guy "should" know this.

What change(s) did you do in the configuration? Deleted the Flight ID information I assume.

FWIW; hang in there for your Airworthiness Certificate. My airplane was ready for it's Airworthiness inspection on September 1, 2001. It didn't get it's certificate until November 1, 2001.

 

[RV8JD]

Yes, the DAR was willing to come and do the inspection but after sending his paperwork to the fisdo he called back and said the FAA isn't taking apps right now due to the Corona shut down.

The plane is a Harmon Rocket II. It was registered that way before me.

Bummer about the COVID-19 delay in getting your HRII flying. This will end, and once you start flying it you'll forget about the delay.

I'm still going out and flying my RV-8 by myself, but am afraid they might try to stop pleasure flights. Small chance of that, but it would be tough not to fly for several weeks until this mess passes.

Good luck!

 

[Rdone]

The SV-XPNDR-261 ADS-B info goes out on the 1090 frequency. Transponder data is on 1030.

Do you know what this "data" is? According to Dynon the transponder is simply a piece of hardware that does not cache any data but simply reports what the head (efis) is telling it to report. How does the transponder data differ from the ads-b data?

 

[GalinHdz]

The SV-XPNDR-261 ADS-B info goes out on the 1090 frequency. Transponder data is on 1030.

Sorry but that is wrong. A transponder receives interrogation on 1030MHz, and sends the reply (All the data) on 1090MHz . The ground RADAR station transmits to the transponder on 1030MHz and receives from the transponder on 1090MHz. It is a duplex system

Transponder Basics

There's a whole lot more to your transponder than a blinking light and an IDENT button. In this article, AVweb's avionics guru teaches you everything you need to to know about transponders and altitude encoders. Even the most grizzled veteran pilot is likely to learn a thing or two.

www.avweb.com

FWIW: ADS-B data can be transmitted on either 978MHz (UAT) or 1090MHz (Transponder) but not on both. Either way the data is exactly the same.

Do you know what this "data" is? According to Dynon the transponder is simply a piece of hardware that does not cache any data but simply reports what the head (efis) is telling it to report. How does the transponder data differ from the ads-b data?

It doesn't.

ADS-B "data" is part of the entire transponder "Extended Squitter Data Stream" sent to ATC on 1090MHz.

 

[kellym]

FWIW: ADS-B data can be transmitted on either 978MHz (UAT) or 1090MHz (Transponder) but not on both. Either way the data is exactly the same.

Actually, you can have two ADS-B Out units, one transmitting on 978 and the other on 1090. I have a friend who does a lot of teaching in CA who chose to equip his aircraft that way, so that any other aircraft can receive his signal regardless of where the ground stations are. I don't know what the avionics shop had to do to sync the two transmitters.

 

[GalinHdz]

Actually, you can have two ADS-B Out units, one transmitting on 978 and the other on 1090. I have a friend who does a lot of teaching in CA who chose to equip his aircraft that way, so that any other aircraft can receive his signal regardless of where the ground stations are. I don't know what the avionics shop had to do to sync the two transmitters.

Legally there is no restriction so you are correct, but not a good idea. Here is the FAA's take on this exact issue:

“We kind of discourage it for obvious reasons. What we do see a lot and what we do refer to as “dual out installations” where they’ve got a 1090 UAT system installed on the same aircraft and both are transmitting is that they pick a link, most of the 1090 units now receive on both links, so you can get the traffic and the weather information from a single unit. But there is no restriction to limit broadcasts on both links. One particular item to remember in that case is that you need to make sure that your flight ID and your ICAO code are entered correctly on both units, otherwise an ADS-B In-equipped aircraft will see that as two aircraft flying very close to one another.” – James Marks, FAA ADS-B Focus Team.

Remember, equipment and capabilities have increased a whole lot in the past few years and if not done correctly you will get a letter of non-compliance from the FAA. The last thing any of us want is to have the FAA looking deeper at our aircraft. YMMV

 

[Steveden]

I asked a Boeing flight engineer buddy about your issue and he said that if at anytime that N number was previously issued to a Russian style aircraft, it is most liked an FAA issue. He says the FAA has not correctly re-identified or removed the Russian designation from some internal record for that N number prior to reissuing it back for use. The Dynon system only reads what's stored in the FAA data for an N number. I can't see how it would be a hardware issue. Its worth a try to contact the FAA about it.

 

[Rdone]

I asked a Boeing flight engineer buddy about your issue and he said that if at anytime that N number was previously issued to a Russian style aircraft, it is most liked an FAA issue. He says the FAA has not correctly re-identified or removed the Russian designation from some internal record for that N number prior to reissuing it back for use. The Dynon system only reads what's stored in the FAA data for an N number. I can't see how it would be a hardware issue. Its worth a try to contact the FAA about it.

That is interesting and hadn't occurred to me. The previous "plane" that had this tail number from '92-'98 was a Raven S55a. As far as I can tell that is probably an Aerostar Raven hot air balloon which is a US company. It's worth an inquiry to the FAA though to make sure the Hex and N numbers are reporting correctly.

The only problem with this theory is the testers screen is showing the old hex code that was previously showing in the Dynon screen before we changed it. Does anyone know how to lookup that hex code 17fe90 belongs to a russian plane?

 

[RV8JD]

Does anyone know how to lookup that hex code 17fe90 belongs to a russian plane?

Here is a link to a N-Number/C-Number/Hex Code/Octal Code translator, but doesn't apply to Russian registrations. Hex code 17fe90 shows no corresponding data, which is to be expected.

http://www.avionictools.com/icao.php

But the site below lists the Russian Federation Hex code range as: From - 100000, To - 1FFFFF, so 17fe90 fits in.

http://www.mantma.co.uk/icao_country_codes.html

 

[Rdone]

Thanks for that.