Panel Planning Help Request

[freerangequark]

Hi,
I'm looking to get some feedback from experienced Skyview users.
I'm designing the panel for my current project which is a day/night VFR tandem seat, open cockpit, experimental. left hand throttle and right hand on the stick.
I have a Skyview Touch that was given to me for this project. I plan on also purchasing two-axis autopilot servos, the Dynon Comm, Dynon knob panel, Dynon Autopilot control panel, PS Engineering High Noise Environment intercom.

The Intercom and Autopilot panel are not in my concept model yet.

Some questions:

2. The Skyview will be centered on the panel. I have space on either the left or right side for the Comm, Knobs, AP Panel, and Intercom.
3. I was thinking Comm and Intercom should be on the left side of the Skyview and Knobs, and Autopilot panels on the right. Any reason to consider a different layout?
4. Any comments about how useful the Autopilot panel would be for me? One thing it might do is offer some symmetry to the panel if I place the intercom to the left of the comm


Also... Will the Skyview "touch" features work with a generic glove? Or do I need the kind of gloves specifically suited for use with touch screens?

 

[jnmeade]

I have a Rans S-7S with a SkyView HDX but it initially had a Touch. Right or wrong, I gave quite a bit of thought to panel layout. I have no training or experience in panel layout.
I designed the panel to hinge so the entire panel falls toward you and lays flat so you have access to the entire 'innards'. That meant the sides have to clear any structure such as tubes or framing. It also meant that items with cables had to be relocated beneath the panel or they could have been on a split part of the panel that did not fold down. I mounted the brake and choke under the panel off to the left side.
I visualized how I would move controls.
Throttle and choke were on the left, so I wanted fuel pump switch on the left side. I put the ignition switches, breakers and starter button on the right side, as I figured I'd handle the choke and throttle with the left hand while the right hand did the starting.
Right hand on the stick, I wanted light switches on the left of the panel. I absolutely did not lineup all the switches in a row. I wanted the switches grouped logically and in their own little groups or island. That way, I would easily know by feel just what switch my finger was on without looking or trying to count down a line of switches. Grouping switches is much better ergonomically than a line of switches, in my biased opinion.
With the Touch, I had the panel split 40-40-20. I aligned the Touch so the 40-40 spit was dead center, which means the -20 where I had the engine display was a little to the right. Said another way, the Touch is not in the center of the panel.
CBs were on the same side as the switches, so the left side of the panel was filled with light and servo CBs. That means the CBs on the right side supported the radio, starter, ADS-B, etc.
To avoid switching hands on the stick, Dynon panels need to distributed with easy reach of the left hand. Those that are going to get a lot of use should get the best positions. Think about whether you want vertical or horizontal Dynon panels.
I have one radio but want to add another. That may mean cutting a new panel. I'll think about that. For the most part, I'm very happy with my panel layout.
I absolutely use the AP and Knob panels. I added them later as I initially didn't think I'd use them but found that since I had them in my other airplane, I just did not want to do without.
Stick the intercom panel out of the way.
If you like, I could probably send you a picture or two of my panel as it's easier to see than it is to describe.
Again, imagine yourself sitting in the airplane and flying. You start it, turn on lights, adjust radios, go on autopilot, get ATC instructions, etc. Where to you want your hands and do you want to do a lot of hand switching.

 

[SV_Classic]

Hi,
I'm looking to get some feedback from experienced Skyview users.
I'm designing the panel for my current project which is a day/night VFR tandem seat, open cockpit, experimental. left hand throttle and right hand on the stick.
I have a Skyview Touch that was given to me for this project. I plan on also purchasing two-axis autopilot servos, the Dynon Comm, Dynon knob panel, Dynon Autopilot control panel, PS Engineering High Noise Environment intercom.

The Intercom and Autopilot panel are not in my concept model yet.

Some questions:

2. The Skyview will be centered on the panel. I have space on either the left or right side for the Comm, Knobs, AP Panel, and Intercom.
3. I was thinking Comm and Intercom should be on the left side of the Skyview and Knobs, and Autopilot panels on the right. Any reason to consider a different layout?
4. Any comments about how useful the Autopilot panel would be for me? One thing it might do is offer some symmetry to the panel if I place the intercom to the left of the comm


Also... Will the Skyview "touch" features work with a generic glove? Or do I need the kind of gloves specifically suited for use with touch screens?

I just went through this with my tandem biplane installation

How often do you expect to have a passenger in the front seat? If it won't be very often then you can consider putting the intercom panel off to the side somewhere since you won't be fiddling with it very often.

With my panel I tried to put things that need adjustment throughout the flight on the left side so my right hand can stay on the stick. Things that are either switched before/after the flight or rarely during the flight went on the right side. I've actually made a few tweaks so there will be another new panel installed in a couple of weeks when it's ready but this is the basic layout.

 

[cjohngraham]

Hi,
I'm looking to get some feedback from experienced Skyview users.
I'm designing the panel for my current project which is a day/night VFR tandem seat, open cockpit, experimental. left hand throttle and right hand on the stick.
I have a Skyview Touch that was given to me for this project. I plan on also purchasing two-axis autopilot servos, the Dynon Comm, Dynon knob panel, Dynon Autopilot control panel, PS Engineering High Noise Environment intercom.

The Intercom and Autopilot panel are not in my concept model yet.

Some questions:

2. The Skyview will be centered on the panel. I have space on either the left or right side for the Comm, Knobs, AP Panel, and Intercom.
3. I was thinking Comm and Intercom should be on the left side of the Skyview and Knobs, and Autopilot panels on the right. Any reason to consider a different layout?
4. Any comments about how useful the Autopilot panel would be for me? One thing it might do is offer some symmetry to the panel if I place the intercom to the left of the comm


Also... Will the Skyview "touch" features work with a generic glove? Or do I need the kind of gloves specifically suited for use with touch screens?

I have a full Skyview system and use the AP panel a lot. Any old glove may not work.

 

[gordonwhite96]

Here's my layout from a recent upgrade. I have AP & knobs on the left, radio and intercom on the right. If I have a passenger that is also a pilot or is flying, it's typically just stick and throttle...they don't really need access to anything else.
View attachment IMG_4063.JPG

 

[RV8JD]

4. Any comments about how useful the Autopilot panel would be for me? One thing it might do is offer some symmetry to the panel if I place the intercom to the left of the comm

Note that the autopilot control panel is required to have the Auto Trim function.

Re: Gloves. I cut some of the finger tips off my Nomex flying gloves.

 

[Carl_Froehlich]

Of all the modules, you will touch the Knob Panel most. Changing baro, dialing in new track and when changing altitude. This needs to be on the left (throttle hand).
The intercom is the least used item on the panel. Put it on the right.
For me I have a GTN-650 as comm #1. It is on the left side as the Comm #2 (Dynon Radio) is not used nearly as much (mostly Guard monitoring). So your set up would have the Dynon radio on the left side. BTW, the SkyView “APT to Comm” button is great for sending all the freqs to the Dynon radio. Remember the Dynon radio primary and standby freqs are displayed in the top right corner of the SkyView screen.
The autopilot module is used, but not as much. Put it on the right. I would not consider building a SkyVIew panel without this module.
The Audio Panel should be your lowest priority as it is rarely used. Put is someplace that does not mess up the rest of the modules.

Photo of my RV-8 panel attached.
Carl

 

[MikeD]

Hi,
I'm looking to get some feedback from experienced Skyview users.
I'm designing the panel for my current project which is a day/night VFR tandem seat, open cockpit, experimental. left hand throttle and right hand on the stick.
I have a Skyview Touch that was given to me for this project. I plan on also purchasing two-axis autopilot servos, the Dynon Comm, Dynon knob panel, Dynon Autopilot control panel, PS Engineering High Noise Environment intercom.

The Intercom and Autopilot panel are not in my concept model yet.

Some questions:

2. The Skyview will be centered on the panel. I have space on either the left or right side for the Comm, Knobs, AP Panel, and Intercom.
3. I was thinking Comm and Intercom should be on the left side of the Skyview and Knobs, and Autopilot panels on the right. Any reason to consider a different layout?
4. Any comments about how useful the Autopilot panel would be for me? One thing it might do is offer some symmetry to the panel if I place the intercom to the left of the comm


Also... Will the Skyview "touch" features work with a generic glove? Or do I need the kind of gloves specifically suited for use with touch screens?

You have the right approach. Keep the Skyview screen as high as possible on the panel. As noted the AP panel provides you auto trim. Also, the AP panel is only functional if you configure the AP for Advanced mode. It is not active in Simplified mode. I don't have the AP panel. Simplified mode didn't work for me and I have my AP configured for Advanced mode. If I had to do it over again, I would find room for it.

I've had mixed results using the touch screen with gloves and fly with a warm set of fingerless gloves.

The intercom is the least used panel in my plane. It is pretty much a set it and forget it panel. Keep that in mind for placement. I fly about 150 hours a year and for me, the two most frequently used panels are the Comm and Knob panels. The APT -> COM function is the most used function on the panel followed closely by BARO knob function (pressing the BARO knob when in route to pick up the closest station). In a tandem layout you have good access to both the RHS and LHS of the panel. So you have options. If it were me, I would place the COM and KNOB on the left of the screen so they can easily be reached by my left hand, allowing me to keep my right hand on the stick.

One feature you want to look into is the FAST TRACK trays. I was able to use these on my RV-8 to install all the components, inclusive of the Skyview batteries.

 

[maartenversteeg]

Looking at the FAST TRACK trays, it looks like a very nice and clean solution. I only have transponder and ADSB receiver (no Dynon COM) and I mounted these two in my plane under the seats, now the coax cable from each to the bottom mounted antennae are only a single coax loop of maybe a length of 10 inch, minimizing the possible losses, and it is much easier to extend the power and serial data links.

 

[freerangequark]

Hello and thank you for the great feedback. Much appreciated!!

Here is an update to my design based upon the recommendations, experience, and insight from this form.

Round 2
1. Any benefit to reversing the Left/Right position of the groups to either side of the main display?
2. Any benefit to using a horizontal orientation on the side components? Visibility? Ergonomics?

 

[MikeD]

Hello and thank you for the great feedback. Much appreciated!!

Here is an update to my design based upon the recommendations, experience, and insight from this form.

Round 2
1. Any benefit to reversing the Left/Right position of the groups to either side of the main display?
2. Any benefit to using a horizontal orientation on the side components? Visibility? Ergonomics?

Design is well balanced and all functions can be easily reached with either hand. Other than preference, I don't see any upside or downside of using either the vertical or horizontal orientation.

As others have mentioned, since you are flying right hand stick, left hand throttle, I would keep the most frequently used components on the left hand side.

From a UI functional perspective, the colors and design elements present an appealing view, almost too appealing. If you focus your eyes on the screen you will notice that the burled switch panels and the upper design elements are begging for your attention. Most military and large commercial panels typically have a matte black or gray background. Their goal is to make the background invisible so the pilot can concentrate on the particular instrument. With that said, you are building a VFR biplane. The majority of the time, your eyes are going be looking outside, not at the panel. Try a few different mock ups and go with what you like.

 

[PaulSS]

I would bin the Dynon radio and intercom all together and have a centrally-mounted Trig TY91 underneath the HDX. Knob panel on left and A/P controller on the right. Horizontally mounted and aligned with the bottom of the HDX (the horizontal would better match the horizontal flavour of your switch set up.

 

[freerangequark]

I would bin the Dynon radio and intercom all together and have a centrally-mounted Trig TY91 underneath the HDX. Knob panel on left and A/P controller on the right. Horizontally mounted and aligned with the bottom of the HDX (the horizontal would better match the horizontal flavour of your switch set up.

It was my understanding that the original Dynon comm was junk and that the newer Dynon comm radio is Trig underneath.

Can anyone confirm this?

As for the intercom... What you see is a remote head PS engineering 1200 high noise environment intercom which includes push to intercom function. I created a new fascia for it to match the Dynon aesthetic.

I'll make up a rendering with the side units in their horizontal configuration to evaluate.

Thanks!

 

[RV8JD]

It was my understanding that the original Dynon comm was junk and that the newer Dynon comm radio is Trig underneath.

Can anyone confirm this?

The 25KHz offerings:

The SV-COM-C25 is an integrated VHF Com Radio consisting of two modules, the SV-COM-PANEL and the SV-COM-425 transceiver. The SV-COM-425 transceiver was the old Dynon design. There were complaints about the -425 transceiver.

The SV-COM-X25 is an integrated VHF Com Radio consisting of two modules, the SV-COM-PANEL and the SV-COM-T25 transceiver. The SV-COM-T25 transceiver is a Trig-derived version. The SV-COM-25 is TSO’d.

The SV-COM-X25 replaced the SV-COM-C25 in late 2019.

The current offering for the experimental and LSA markets is the SV-COM-760 transceiver. It is not TSO’d. I believe it is also Trig-derived, but don’t know anything else about it.

 

[PaulSS]

The current Dynon radios are Trig units. They even have 'Trig' written on them and the installation manual refers to them as being manufactured by Trig.

The TY91 can be connected very easily to the HDX via a serial connection. You can do almost everything with a TY91 that a Dynon radio can do and certainly transfer frequencies, control the radio through the HDX etc. The best thing about the TY91 is it has a built-in intercom, so no mucking around with a separate head, as required with the Dynon radio. It really is my bug-bear and Dynon would sell more radios through us if they incorporated it (i.e. just leave the TY91 that they use as it is). As it is, most of the panels I design make use of a TY91.

 

[freerangequark]

Three variants.

1 - Vertical
2 - Horizontal #1
3 - Horizontal #2

NOTES:


1. The lower right panel is a drawer.
2. I can easily remove the intercom from the panel altogether to reduce clutter. That will create an aesthetic asymmetry. Yes, form follows function, but the aesthetic is also critical to my build.

Feedback is welcome!

 

[SV_Classic]

What are you building?

 

[freerangequark]

Timber Tiger ST-L clipped wing in civilian colors.

Timber Tiger Aircraft | Glenn S. Gordon | Resume | Portfolio

glennsgordon.com

 

[PaulSS]

I'd have panel design #2 but with the A/P controller above the intercom.

 

[freerangequark]

I'd have panel design #2 but with the A/P controller above the intercom.