Problem with AOA_BAR  on EFIS D100

an.tarducci

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Apr 22, 2010
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Tomorrow i send you the Efis for the display upgrade (super bright).
Can you verify the EFIS for AOA Bar ????
RMA #9046

Many Thanks
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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Please email support at dynonavionics dot com or call 425-402-0433 for specific RMA status.
 

Foxflier

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Dec 3, 2010
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I'm having this exact same issue. Was the solution ever found?? I've tried everything to get my AoA calibrated to no avail. The AoA readout is working during the calibration procedure but as soon as I hit "Finish" it goes back to 100% and a solid red bar!

I've contacted Dynon support via phone but still not received a reply.
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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No. I don't think we've actually found a smoking gun on a unit that's come back for this issue. I think we've had 2 or 3 reports of this behavior over thousands of units, by the way. We'd be happy to take a look at your unit, though, to see if we can find anything wrong with yours. Please mention this thread when you talk to our tech support team.
 

Foxflier

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No. I don't think we've actually found a smoking gun on a unit that's come back for this issue. I think we've had 2 or 3 reports of this behavior over thousands of units, by the way. We'd be happy to take a look at your unit, though, to see if we can find anything wrong with yours. Please mention this thread when you talk to our tech support team.

I really don't think there's a hardware problem here as it's apparent that the system is sensing the two pressures as noted by the AoA bar changing during the calibration procedure. I do think there's a firmware problem in the calibration routine. I would really like to understand the flow of the coding. I have noticed that during some of my stalls the EFIS airspeed goes into GPS assist when the airspeed falls really low, particularly during power on stalls. My aircraft has a really high AoA during those. I'm wondering if the GPS airspeed assist coding could be causing a problem with the AoA calibration code. I'm going to disconnect my GPS and try the calibration just to rule that out.

If there's any sort of reference material you could send me related to how the code works I'd really appreciate it.
 

dynonsupport

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So conceptually, the system is looking at ratios of the pressure between the AOA and pitot ports. If you're into GPS assist, that means that effectively, you're below the sensing range of at least the pitot port, and very likely the AOA port as well. At those extremes, that might give you some strange effects.

Try just one stall, in landing configuration, and without getting to the point that IAS goes to zero (and GPS assist appears) during the stall window in calibration.
 

JohnWF

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Feb 22, 2010
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My AOA calibration didn't go well. I did the pitch up/down (4x) and then the 4 stalls (no flaps full power, then no power, then full flaps full power, and then no power. Did the "stall" push each time, and let the timer run out before the next stall.)

After pushing "finish" I do not get any icon for the AOA, so I tried the install manaul recommendations to push EFIS, SETUP, CLUTTR, AOABAR..can't get CLUTTR because it seems Vans in the RV-12 installation has blocked that CLUTTR feature, so I cannot get to the AOABAR setting.

Now what?
 

JohnWF

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Vans now tells me they don't know if the D-180 will/will not be able to use the AOA with Van's blocked items...yet Vansairforce forum has RV-12 D-180 users already using the AOA with Vans's supplied unit.

If Vans outfit doesn't know what they blocked and its effect I am really puzzled why they blocked things without knowing what effect their actions will have.

I flew again since the post earlier, and now on the ground I have an AOA 'box' with just one red chevron...might be OK but will have to await another flight.
 

dynonsupport

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So the technical stuff first: The AOA bar isn't displayed by default. When you get done with an AOA cal, it nominally pops it up for you automatically. Even if that were not happening, you can nominally fix that with the CLUTTR menu. Obviously, if that menu item isn't available, that's a problem.

If you're seeing the red chevron, it sounds like you have the bar up. So you're probably OK. The RV-12 menu lock doesn't affect the unit's ability to do a calibration.

As for the locking issue: The CLUTTR menu button was removed at Vans choice to avoid the inadvertent removal of items that are critical, like airspeed an altitude. They're in the same place as the AOA bar, which isn't nominally used on an RV-12. Unfortunately, the locking of that particular AOA bar menu item isn't possible to exclude individually, and it isn't feasible to change that behavior because of the complexity of that locking mechanism and the way it is implemented. Admittedly, there are some corner cases like this that neither us or Vans anticipated for people that have decided to build their aircraft a bit differently than Vans' prescription. For folks that are making modifications to the aircraft and going experimental, a non-Vans unit (ie, an off-the-shelf D180) might make more sense. Incidentally, unless you're going experimental amateur-built experimental, it's not ok to make any modifications to the aircraft from the S-LSA example, which doesn't have an AOA probe, until it's airworthy. Then you can make the changes. Weird, I now, but true. So in a nutshell, Vans wasn't really expecting to see AOA probes on E-LSA RV-12s. since it's not part of the spec'd design.

As an additional piece of information: I don't believe Vans is generally willing to RV-12 D180s units, and they're the only ones that have the authorization to change this particular feature on your unit. You'd have to follow up with them to ensure this is the case.

In any case, I think you should be OK here.
 

JohnWF

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Feb 22, 2010
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Thanks for the in-depth response. Yes, I am fully aware that I can make changes AFTER I got my airworthiness certificate...I am fully "legal"

I will post a follow-up if the next flight shows I am now ok.

Thanks again.
 

Foxflier

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To follow up, I finally did get my AoA properly calibrated. I figured out that the power on stall configurations for my O-540 powered Bearhawk are too extreme for the system to use. The plane nearly hangs on the prop during power on and airspeed goes so low the cal routine wouldn't accept it. My final calibration was with a single power off stall, two notches of flaps, and it provides a good reliable profile for the normal flight envelope.
 

GalinHdz

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To follow up, I finally did get my AoA properly calibrated.  I figured out that the power on stall configurations for my O-540 powered Bearhawk are too extreme for the system to use.  The plane nearly hangs on the prop during power on and airspeed goes so low the cal routine wouldn't accept it.  My final calibration was with a single power off stall, two notches of flaps, and it provides a good reliable profile for the normal flight envelope.

I am having the same problem, one red bar at all times on the AOA display after calibration. Your situation sounds like mine. During a full power on stall my airplane hangs on the prop, the airspeed is very low and it just "mushes" down with little to no actual stall. Your solution, a single power off stall with two notches of flaps, sounds logical so I will try it when the weather gets better. I will post the results.  :cool:
 

JohnWF

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I finally got good weather and attempted to calibrate the AOA again....I started with just the 'empty box' with one red chevron and after finishing stalls, hitting "finish" it gave me a completely 'filled' AOA icon, but I coult not exit the calibration page....hitting cancel removed all the effort...will try again...the only thing I can think of right now is that the last stall timer of 45 sweconds had not yet elapsed...will try again next flight...tomorrow hopefully.
 

JohnWF

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Flew today and did the AOA calibrate thing again...used someone's suggestion of doing only a full flaps, power off stall, and that worked perfectly. Letting the 45-second timer for stalls run out completely did the trick...my failed attempt two days ago died because I didn't let that 45-seconds elapse.

Doing these stalls in an RV-12 at 9,500 MSL gave a mush, not a breaking stall, and minimal altitude loss. Indicated airspeed at that altitude at the 'mush' was 46-mph. I would like to see what it would be at sea level but living in the moutains I probably will never know for sure. Anyway the AOA icon is present and everything works just fine. Phew !!
 

GHDZ

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OK, I did the modified AOA calibration (fast cruise and only one no power full flap stall) but it still isn't working correctly.

When I take off I show only one red bar even when I get to cruise flight. BUT, as I cruise along the bars slowly start showing up. After about 1/2hr in cruise, the yellow bars are present. After about 1hr of cruise, the green bars start appearing. Within 1.5hrs of cruise flight all but one of the green bars are showing and the AOA looks to be working correctly. Since I am still in cruise configuration during the entire time, nothing has changed. I have not changed altitude, speed, heading or anything else. Any ideas? :cool:
 

dynonsupport

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I'll admit I'm a bit stumped. I suppose there could be something up with the sensor, but I don't think we've ever seen that sensor fail in such a way before. I wonder if there is something - perhaps water -- in the AOA line that is causing the aoa port to see a pressure change over time. It can't be in the pitot, else your ias would behave oddly. I'm assuming that's fine, correct?
 

GalinHdz

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The airplane lives in a hangar and I haven't had it out in the rain for at least 4 months. I haven't even washed the airplane recently. Yes, it needs washing. :cool:
 

GalinHdz

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I'll admit I'm a bit stumped. I suppose there could be something up with the sensor, but I don't think we've ever seen that sensor fail in such a way before. I wonder if there is something - perhaps water -- in the AOA line that is causing the aoa port to see a pressure change over time. It can't be in the pitot, else your ias would behave oddly. I'm assuming that's fine, correct?

So, no ideas of what I should do next to correct this issue? :cool:
 
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