question for Dynon about autopilots moving forward

[Rhino]

Here's a crazy idea, threaten to move your company to Kansas so you too can be competitive and use the same FAA office that Garmin uses. See how that goes with the governor and senators of the state where that FAA office that Dynon is using is located. I'll bet they'll get on the phone and have that FAA office move along faster, IF THAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM.

The governor and senators of a state have no influence over the FAA, and I imagine Dynon has no desire to start over in another state. I wouldn't object though.

 

[Pilot135pd]

The governor and senators of a state have no influence over the FAA, and I imagine Dynon has no desire to start over in another state. I wouldn't object though.

You think governors and senators don't have any influence over the FAA? Maybe not up to last year, but now every federal government office does whatever the people on top tell them to do. I guess Dynon might need to allocate some funds, like social media and TV companies use to get what they want done.

 

[Rhino]

..... every federal government office does whatever the people on top tell them to do....

You're missing the point. Governors and state senators are not on top of federal government offices.

 

[constantspeed]

I want to take a moment to share that we are continuing to work on autopilot approvals. It’s something that hasn’t gone well over the years, and I genuinely feel bad about that. I’m personally working with the team to move this forward and to improve how we handle it.

Over the last few years, we’ve made a number of changes to how we approach this work. Some have helped us make better progress, and some haven’t worked as well as we hoped. But we’re keeping at it, learning as we go, and I’m optimistic that the more recent changes are starting to make a real difference. I don’t know yet if we’ll be able to do this much better, but please know it has my attention, and we’re really working on it.

We’ve learned that we haven’t been very good at predicting these projects, so we’ve stopped making forward-looking statements about what’s coming or when. The upside is that we’re no longer making promises we might miss (and miss by a lot) - the downside is that it can feel like we’re not communicating enough about what we’re trying to do. Both are true, and we'll continue to try to find balance.

Thank you for your feedback, your patience, and for continuing to Fly Dynon. We’ll share updates as soon as we have real progress to announce.

Brad
President, Dynon

Okay, at least a response from Dynon, thank you Brad, and I believe you are being genuine, but respectfully, these are almost the same sentiments expressed by Michael, from your team, in his response here to much the same conversation on Nov 4, 2022.

"We really are trying to make this right. It's going to take longer than we thought..." (see the thread "E-35 Bonanza. New Dynon panel")

The years have passed and so far we have only words. You can understand what value I think they have. Only results count at this point. You have no idea how many people I have talked to and who have expressed interest in my panel and Dynon, who I could have enthusiastically turned into your customers, if only you had an approved autopilot.

I will say again, whatever your process or strategy is to move this forward does not appear to be working, with the Debonair or other older model v-tail 35's. You need to expand your network, reach out to those who are interested, capable and willing (I know there are many). You cannot try to do all of this one specific aircraft at a time, in-house. If you do not have the resources, then work with those that do and collaborate. Back in 2022 I had a conversation with Stein of SteinAir, based here in Minnesota, who works with both Dynon and Garmin. I asked him how Garmin leap-frogged Dynon to get the GFC500 approved in all model year Bonanzas in under three year? I am para-phrasing his response here from memory, so any errors are mine, but the gist of his response was that his shop, along with numerous others, worked with Garmin to install the GFC500 system in a number of customer aircraft who were willing to work with them to get the AP and their model type approved. Even Garmin didn't do it all in-house, and neither should you.

​

 

[constantspeed]

I seen a 210 some time ago that had a full feature HDX system with a G5 as standby and GFC500. Functionally it covered the bases, minus some integration to the screens.

I have dual Dynon HDX 10" displays in my panel (J35 Bonanza) combined with an Avidyne IFD540 navigator. It is possible to add a Garmin GFC500 autopilot by also adding the Garmin G5 (or possibly the Gi 275), and connecting them to the IFD540. This will work well and be fully functional, from what I understand, however, in doing so you bypass the Dynon system entirely. The AP will be driven by the little G5, that you have now had to add in some awkward location on your panel. The autopilot and navigation will NOT be integrated with those big beautiful Dynon displays, but rather what seems like that little backup G5 display you had originally considered as a poor-man's glass cockpit band-aid upgrade. You will basically have two independent systems. Best case this would be less than ideal and worst case, dangerously confusing if you mix them up or you get behind on the aircraft. But it is one option, along with ripping all the Dynon stuff out and going all Garmin. My only real option at this point for a certified autopilot in my Bo.

 

[Brent Dana]

I agree. I'm beginning to feel forgotten. Seems like a few approvals are achieved for one aircraft make and then the rest of us wait in the abyss. I've been waiting for 8 years. I know there are many who have waited much longer. When I ask about progress, I get an arms raised, palms up, shrugged shoulders, "Beats me" kind of answer. If there's a "progress/here's where we (Dynon) are so far and why" area on the Dynon Certified Website, I haven't seen it. Sorry. I don't mean to offend anybody but it doesn't change my opener on the subject: I feel forgotten. I own a 1960 BE35-33 Debonair; one of many Beech Make and Models long since on a list that Dynon has not made allot of headway on despite 10+ years passing since Dynon captured our portion of the certified market. I love the product, the people, the company business model, but I'm feeling forgotten when it comes to getting our aircraft approved for auto pilot installation.
Chris

The interesting thing, is I bet you cannot find any differences in Auto Pilot setup in you deb, vs. approved Deb. All FAA BS!!!

unlike Garmin, Dynon does not have the money to "influence" the FAA.
The FAA is run like the MOB, It needs to be completely scrapped and rebuilt just like every other agency in our Govt today.

 

[OgieOglethorpe]

I was of no illusions of grandeur when I installed a dual hdx system in my pa32. When I spoke to Dynon they flat out said do not install the system assuming the autopilot will be coming shortly. Luckily I could install an aerocruze. Its not perfect. but its functional. Anyone that installed there HDX anyway did so at their own risk. Does it suck? Absolutely. Would I like Dynon to be more active on the forums? Yep. But they can only say "we're working on it" before it becomes empty. At least your plane is in the works. If you've got a Piper single your name aint even on the list.

 

[Pilot135pd]

Okay, at least a response from Dynon, thank you Brad, and I believe you are being genuine, but respectfully, these are almost the same sentiments expressed by Michael, from your team, in his response here to much the same conversation on Nov 4, 2022.

"We really are trying to make this right. It's going to take longer than we thought..." (see the thread "E-35 Bonanza. New Dynon panel")

The years have passed and so far we have only words. You can understand what value I think they have. Only results count at this point. You have no idea how many people I have talked to and who have expressed interest in my panel and Dynon, who I could have enthusiastically turned into your customers, if only you had an approved autopilot.

I will say again, whatever your process or strategy is to move this forward does not appear to be working, with the Debonair or other older model v-tail 35's. You need to expand your network, reach out to those who are interested, capable and willing (I know there are many). You cannot try to do all of this one specific aircraft at a time, in-house. If you do not have the resources, then work with those that do and collaborate. Back in 2022 I had a conversation with Stein of SteinAir, based here in Minnesota, who works with both Dynon and Garmin. I asked him how Garmin leap-frogged Dynon to get the GFC500 approved in all model year Bonanzas in under three year? I am para-phrasing his response here from memory, so any errors are mine, but the gist of his response was that his shop, along with numerous others, worked with Garmin to install the GFC500 system in a number of customer aircraft who were willing to work with them to get the AP and their model type approved. Even Garmin didn't do it all in-house, and neither should you.

​

BINGO !!! That's what this company did to get the STC. Apparently it's going to take individual companies that work on a specific brand to do it themselves. https://www.duncanaviation.aero/new...ixking-aerocruze-100-autopilot-in-mooney-m20s

 

[OgieOglethorpe]

BINGO !!! That's what this company did to get the STC. Apparently it's going to take individual companies that work on a specific brand to do it themselves. https://www.duncanaviation.aero/new...ixking-aerocruze-100-autopilot-in-mooney-m20s

Go try and find the stc number. Theres something fishy about it. Duncan doesnt list it. Bendix doesnt list it. The FAA system doesnt show it (but thats not saying much). Apparently the drawings Duncan had of Mooney airframes and what was in the wild didnt match up. So things had to be revised. So I think Duncan jumped the gun by a few years and now theyre blaming Bendix which seems like weak sauce. So this isnt just a Dynon issue.

Per Mooneyspace regarding the AC100 autopilot

Yeah, this is hard to stomach and I am sad for Mooney operators.... I wish we could get some traction with upper management at the OEM to get this pushed forward...but this is where we are at the moment...

The original STC drawings and installation instructions have been revised by Duncan Aviation Engineering, which was sent off to Bendix King in June of 2025.

BK Engineering has been evaluating the revised Duncan information (for several months now), and once that evaluation is completed, BK Engineering will ask the BK ODA to approve this additional data "as approved supplemental data to use with the original STC".

We are hoping to have the BK ODA approve on this revised data the end of Quarter 4 of 2025, but additional parts have to be designed, manufactured and added to the original STC kits (which won't happen until approximately the end of Quarter 1 of 2026).

 

[Pilot135pd]

Go try and find the stc number. Theres something fishy about it. Duncan doesnt list it. Bendix doesnt list it. The FAA system doesnt show it (but thats not saying much). Apparently the drawings Duncan had of Mooney airframes and what was in the wild didnt match up. So things had to be revised. So I think Duncan jumped the gun by a few years and now theyre blaming Bendix which seems like weak sauce. So this isnt just a Dynon issue.

Per Mooneyspace regarding the AC100 autopilot

Yeah, this is hard to stomach and I am sad for Mooney operators.... I wish we could get some traction with upper management at the OEM to get this pushed forward...but this is where we are at the moment...

The original STC drawings and installation instructions have been revised by Duncan Aviation Engineering, which was sent off to Bendix King in June of 2025.

BK Engineering has been evaluating the revised Duncan information (for several months now), and once that evaluation is completed, BK Engineering will ask the BK ODA to approve this additional data "as approved supplemental data to use with the original STC".

We are hoping to have the BK ODA approve on this revised data the end of Quarter 4 of 2025, but additional parts have to be designed, manufactured and added to the original STC kits (which won't happen until approximately the end of Quarter 1 of 2026).

That's a negative view of the situation. I'm more of a positive thinking person so I see it as Duncan is closer to getting it done than others just sitting around doing nothing or just giving lip service.

 

[OgieOglethorpe]

That's a negative view of the situation. I'm more of a positive thinking person so I see it as Duncan is closer to getting it done than others just sitting around doing nothing or just giving lip service.

My point was Duncan announced having the stc 3 years ago. Now they claim they should be able to start installing systems in q4 2026.

Dynon tried to let outside firms get the autopilot certified (Seneca). They ended up having to bring that in house.

I have heard a gentleman from the stc group that got the trio the autopilot for the pa24 and pa28 to try intgreate the dynon servos for the piper singles as he has those designs already approved. He claims he heard crickets.