Skyview, IFD and Foreflight integration

[dougnlina]

So I have dual SV-700s, an IFD 440 and I use foreflight. Currently, to load data I have two wifi networks, one skyview, and one on the IFD. To load a flight plan I have to connect wifi to the IFD to load the flight plan, but then I usually change the connection to skyview to get the traffic and other ADSB information on the ipad. Then sometimes it is back to the IFD for flight plan changes. Sometimes foreflight seems to need to be re-started to connect to the other system and push a plan. My question is is there some way to integrate these three components so they work together smoothly? In a perfect world the three would work on the same network and be able to share data cross platforms. I tend to also load the flight plan on the skyview because it is easier (or at least more familiar) to use it to push frequencies, look up weather, get wind data, etc. Bottom line is I am spending a lot of time jumping from the IFD wifi to the Skyview wifi and I need to improve this.
What are others doing? I dont need the fine details, but maybe some broad brushstrokes on how you connect and what you are and are not able to share, or how you manage the transfer of data across these platforms.
Thanks, D

 

[kurtfly]

You may configure your IFD as a remote device on the Skyview network. This will preclude you from switching networks. The IFD will be part of the Skyview network. The IFD explains how to do this with a Straus network In their documents. It is the same procedure.
Foreflight will then start using the IFD as the position source as it is the most accurate. Foreflight devices tab will show 3 devices, Skyview nav, Skyview ADSB, and the IFD. You can then get flight plans from the panel via the devices tab. However, you cannot push a flight plan to the panel as it has no way to select which device to push too. The IFD or Skyview . It will most times pick Skyview. But if you are IFR you would typically want the IFD. This is a deficiency of Foreflight that I have reported several times over the past year. They have yet to take this capability seriously yet. I have expressed my frustration about this again at Oshkosh. I cannot be the only one that has more than one nav source on the same network.

 

[kurtfly]

Another note…. Avidyne released capabilities of the next software version coming to the IFD. Version 10.3 will allow all ADSB products, weather ,traffic,… to be available on the IFD via WiFi network. So, this will allow the IFD to display Skyview ADSB data on the IFD if desired. assuming you remote connect your IFD to the Skyview network.

 

[dougnlina]

"However, you cannot push a flight plan to the panel as it has no way to select which device to push too. The IFD or Skyview ."
This is a problem. I suppose these companies are pointing their fingers at one another for a fix.
How do the Garmin panels handle this? I would assume their continuity with foreflight doesn't have this issue?
Dynon must realize that this kind of functionality is basic to the value of their system.
Additionally the IFD has bluetooth, can the bluetooth be used to interact on a seperate thread with foreflight?

 

[chriscalandro]

"However, you cannot push a flight plan to the panel as it has no way to select which device to push too. The IFD or Skyview ."
This is a problem. I suppose these companies are pointing their fingers at one another for a fix.
How do the Garmin panels handle this? I would assume their continuity with foreflight doesn't have this issue?
Dynon must realize that this kind of functionality is basic to the value of their system.

Dynon doesn’t make Avidyne products, and what you are discussing is an Avidyne issue.
Avidyne doesn’t allow flight plan information to be entered via ARINC.
There is no finger pointing. I’m not sure if the decision is regulatory or not.

 

[kurtfly]

The problem is with Foreflight. this problem only exists when you have two or more devices that can receive a flight plan from Foreflight. In this case the Skyview and the IFD both are able to receive a flight plan from Foreflight. It just has no way of selecting who is to receive. It usually decides to go to Skyview, which in my case, is the wrong device I want to send it to.

 

[dougnlina]

While the problem may be with Foreflight, It should be of enough concern to Dynon that they work towards a solution, either in collaboration with Foreflight, or by integrating with Avidynes box using the serial connection. Really, the larger issue is that Dynon does not have an approach certified GPS navigator, and until they do those of us who want to fly IFR with Dynon systems need to use a box such as that offered by Avidyne. The Avidyne product is excellent and has several aviation format communications using RS232, ARINC, wifi and bluetooth. If Dynon wants to continue to capture the market they are competing with Garmin, whose systems integrate seamlessly (with themselves). Unfortunately, right now, most new EAB aircraft I seem being built are being Garmin equipped. That does not bode well for the future of Dynon or those of us who hope for the continuing success of Dynon.

 

[kurtfly]

While the problem may be with Foreflight, It should be of enough concern to Dynon that they work towards a solution, either in collaboration with Foreflight, or by integrating with Avidynes box using the serial connection. Really, the larger issue is that Dynon does not have an approach certified GPS navigator, and until they do those of us who want to fly IFR with Dynon systems need to use a box such as that offered by Avidyne. The Avidyne product is excellent and has several aviation format communications using RS232, ARINC, wifi and bluetooth. If Dynon wants to continue to capture the market they are competing with Garmin, whose systems integrate seamlessly (with themselves). Unfortunately, right now, most new EAB aircraft I seem being built are being Garmin equipped. That does not bode well for the future of Dynon or those of us who hope for the continuing success of Dynon.

I agree with you 100 %.. I have voiced the very same thing to Dynon and Avidyne on several occasions. Even filled out the online survey they ask for at the shows. Dynon is at an disadvantage if an fully integrated solution is desired. I think Avidyne software 10.3 is a huge step towards this if it does as they say...
The WiFi / Ethernet interface is a giant leap towards this if the companies collaborate and share data / standardize protocols. No reason you cant tune a radio, move flight plans, move weather products/ traffic between boxes. That is the meaning of a multi-function display.

 

[jsalak]

I agree with the frustration trying to synch up the IFD, Skyview, and Foreflight, especially for any Instrument Procedure changes during flight. I was shooting some RNAVs today and basically used FF for looking at the approach plate in order to keep SV Map, SV AP, and the 540 synched for any changes that required data entry.

Preplanning on Foreflight is a waste of time for loading flight plans into the IFD over the Skyview network with the IFD as a remote. I understand the logic of not allowing SV flight plans to be exported to the IFD due to the lack of validity checking by SV. FF sees both devices, so is the problem "Send to Panel" only sends to SV as network controller and not to a SV network remote device? Perhaps the SV network controller is not allowing FPs to be sent to the remote device under the "SV does not export FPs to Navigators'" policy.

If FF could use the BT link to the IFD and not rely on the SV WiFi, that might be a solution to the validity checks. The other nice part of that setup is if you lose the SV in-flight (the SV network controller and IFD SV WiFi remote link to FF also pack up shop) you would still have the IFD-FF BT link. The IFD100 on BT seems to work well.

 

[rfazio1951]

I am reading this thread with interest since I am considering a 440. I have a GNS430 now and can easily plug in the IFD440. It seems to me when flying IFR I would connect to the 440 alone. Shoot flight plans to it and I’m hoping approaches. I look at traffic and weather on the Skyview, So, I see no reason to stay connected to the Skyview. By the way, my friend flys with a GNS650 and it’s the same thing. You push to the Skyview or the 650. The issue I think is simply Foreflight. Foreflight needs to add a choice when sending to panel. Also when pulling down, you should be able to pull from either the navigator or Skyview.

 

[jsalak]

I agree with the frustration trying to synch up the IFD, Skyview, and Foreflight, especially for any Instrument Procedure changes during flight. I was shooting some RNAVs today and basically used FF for looking at the approach plate in order to keep SV Map, SV AP, and the 540 synched for any changes that required data entry.

Preplanning on Foreflight is a waste of time for loading flight plans into the IFD over the Skyview network with the IFD as a remote. I understand the logic of not allowing SV flight plans to be exported to the IFD due to the lack of validity checking by SV. FF sees both devices, so is the problem "Send to Panel" only sends to SV as network controller and not to a SV network remote device? Perhaps the SV network controller is not allowing FPs to be sent to the remote device under the "SV does not export FPs to Navigators'" policy.

If FF could use the BT link to the IFD and not rely on the SV WiFi, that might be a solution to the validity checks. The other nice part of that setup is if you lose the SV in-flight (the SV network controller and IFD SV WiFi remote link to FF also pack up shop) you would still have the IFD-FF BT link. The IFD100 on BT seems to work well.

Correction to this post, the IFD100 runs on the WiFi, not the BT for the IFD540, BT is only for the external IFD keyboard.

I was looking at the "Devices" page of FF earlier today while connected to the SV and IFD 540 and noted the capabilities listed under the 540 included sending FF FPs to the unit. I presume the Send to Panel activation sends to all devices capable of receiving FPs. Interestingly, all the network information (IP address, etc) is only listed under the SV Devices page. Still unable to narrow down if the FF flight plan is even getting to the IFD via the SV WiFi.

I was also working with the IFD100 and was able to create FPs that synched up with the 540s route list. I did run across a problem with synching and activation of FPs because the Nav Data versions between the iPad IDF100 and the 540 did not match (FPL xSync Disabled). Now I have one more item to add to the regular update list. I would be curious if the same problem is occurring with FF and the 540 datasets not matching.

Interesting to see the IFD100 Map page was showing SV-ADS-B-472 data that the 540 does not show.

 

[kellym]

While the problem may be with Foreflight, It should be of enough concern to Dynon that they work towards a solution, either in collaboration with Foreflight, or by integrating with Avidynes box using the serial connection. Really, the larger issue is that Dynon does not have an approach certified GPS navigator, and until they do those of us who want to fly IFR with Dynon systems need to use a box such as that offered by Avidyne. The Avidyne product is excellent and has several aviation format communications using RS232, ARINC, wifi and bluetooth. If Dynon wants to continue to capture the market they are competing with Garmin, whose systems integrate seamlessly (with themselves). Unfortunately, right now, most new EAB aircraft I seem being built are being Garmin equipped. That does not bode well for the future of Dynon or those of us who hope for the continuing success of Dynon.

I disagree. If one is to fly IFR with a Dynon display, you need it configured to display the flight plan of your legal IFR navigator. You need to be able to make all clearance/flight plan changes directly on the IFR navigator. Whether I create a flight plan with Foreflight, FlyQ or other software, I enter the flight plan directly in my IFR navigator. Trying to bring in a third party program to do your entry and changes is asking for trouble. If that system gets a glitch, you do not have time or mental cycles to troubleshoot the problem while keeping the dirty side down. The IFR navigator is tested, Certified as meeting the TSO, etc. Trying to bandaid something else to that increases your training requirements and really offers no gain. I very early in using Skyview figured out that trying to be proficient in both my GTN650 and Skyview for flight plans was a wasted effort. I will look up information and charts on the Skyview, but all flight plan entry is directly to the GTN. The GTN pushes all changes via the ARINC interface. While Foreflight is nice for an additional display, it is not a certified device, there is no mechanism for notifying you of errors in its database or display. IFR is serious business and it needs to be flown with approved, certified systems, whether you are in an experimental or certified aircraft. Same thing for practice approaches. You need to be practicing the real thing. If you use something else, you don't know whath you don't know.

 

[Dynon]

Another note…. Avidyne released capabilities of the next software version coming to the IFD. Version 10.3 will allow all ADSB products, weather ,traffic,… to be available on the IFD via WiFi network. So, this will allow the IFD to display Skyview ADSB data on the IFD if desired. assuming you remote connect your IFD to the Skyview network.

We haven't verified compatibility at this point (but are looking into it). SkyView does stream "standard" ADS-B data over wifi, so it's a possibility.

Also, another note is that multiple devices connected to SkyView may not necessarily be able to talk to each other over SkyView's wifi connection.

 

[jsalak]

We haven't verified compatibility at this point (but are looking into it). SkyView does stream "standard" ADS-B data over wifi, so it's a possibility.

Also, another note is that multiple devices connected to SkyView may not necessarily be able to talk to each other over SkyView's wifi connection.

Could you expand on the last comment about multiple devices on SV WiFi not necessarily talking to each other? I presume if Foreflight can talk to the IDF540 over the Avidyne WiFi network, there should be no change in capability by switching it to the SV WiFi network. For unknown reasons Foreflight's Load FP from Panel has no problem importing the SV FP and totally ignores the SV version IFD540's active flight plan tab (540 FP is also active in SV and displayed on the SV MAP page). I would think SV would send the current displayed flight plan source data to Foreflight when requested. If I change the FP on the 540 it is automatically sent to SV for update, if SV sent its 540 FL data to Foreflight's Load from Panel query that would at least synch all three applications.

I am curious about seeing the SV-ADS-B-472 data on the iPad IFD100 app MAP page. That data would have to come from the IFD540 as the IFD100 is synching with the 540 over the SV WiFi. Does SV currently send ADS-B data to the IDF540 over the ARINC-429 or is there another path in play.

 

[robby]

FF sees both devices, so is the problem "Send to Panel" only sends to SV as network controller and not to a SV network remote device? Perhaps the SV network controller is not allowing FPs to be sent to the remote device under the "SV does not export FPs to Navigators'" policy.

It doesn't really work like that though -- when Foreflight talks to the IFD, that's a direct communication (it doesn't get interpreted or modified by SkyView en route, even when SkyView is the WAP/DHCP server). I'm betting this is just a really naive implementation in Foreflight, e.g. it sends to the first device it discovers.

I presume the Send to Panel activation sends to all devices capable of receiving FPs. Interestingly, all the network information (IP address, etc) is only listed under the SV Devices page. Still unable to narrow down if the FF flight plan is even getting to the IFD via the SV WiFi.

See above. I'd bet dollars do donuts that Foreflight is sending to the first device, not all devices. I share the frustration here. I want to talk to Dynon when flying VFR, and talk to Avidyne when flying IFR -- but the only way to do this at present is to switch wifi networks according to weather conditions/flight plan. Blegh.

 

[hoyden]

I have observed a similar issue when I replaced my Garmin 496 with an Aera 660. I can push a FF flight plan to Aera via Bluetooth and to Dynon via WiFi. I push the flight plan to the Aera first, then connect to WiFi, and push the flight plan to Dynon.

 

[timfwalsh01]

Another note…. Avidyne released capabilities of the next software version coming to the IFD. Version 10.3 will allow all ADSB products, weather ,traffic,… to be available on the IFD via WiFi network. So, this will allow the IFD to display Skyview ADSB data on the IFD if desired. assuming you remote connect your IFD to the Skyview network.

We haven't verified compatibility at this point (but are looking into it). SkyView does stream "standard" ADS-B data over wifi, so it's a possibility.

Also, another note is that multiple devices connected to SkyView may not necessarily be able to talk to each other over SkyView's wifi connection.

Now that Avidyne IFD 10.3, has been released, has the issue of sending a flight plan from Foreflight been resolved, and will ADS-B data be shown on the IFD?

 

[kurtfly]

I just upgraded my IFD540 to version 10.3 and am having several issues, all regarding the WiFi connection.
My system is a Dynon Skyview D1000T, with the ABS-B 472 Receiver, and the IFD-540.
The upgrade to 10.3 went fine. No errors. I enabled the Weather/Traffic over WiFi in the configuration page.
I configured the IFD WiFi to connect to the Skyview network.
After a few min’s I get “ADS-B Traffic Sensor Fault” and “Datalink Receiver Fault”. I also have Foreflight on an Apple Tablet connect.
With the aircraft outside, and IFD GPS locked I see traffic flying over head on the Skyview display and Foreflight. Nothing on IFD. IFD shows Traffic lined out.
While looking at Foreflight, Setup, Devices tab, I see Skyview device, ADS-B device, and IFD device. But the IFD will disconnect from network and reconnect periodically. I am never able to get a stable network connection that maintains connection with the IFD when connected as remote device on Skyview network.
I returned to the Configuration page in setup and disabled the WiFI weather/Traffic.
This removed the ADS-B Traffic Sensor Fault and Datalink Receiver Fault but it IFD would still drop WiFi connection with the Skyview Network according to Foreflight Devices.
Basically I think 10.3 is worse, i loose capability over the previous version.

I have a email out to Avidyne tech support.

I wish to revert back to version 10.2.4.1. Is this possible????

Kurt