Smart Glide similar solution

d3mac123

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I was wondering if Dynon could come with something similar to the latest Garmin announcement "Smart Glide". Basically, it detects if your engine stopped or lost oil pressure (the EMS module can detect that) then points you with a highway in the sky to the closest airports (Skyview could do that, after all, it keeps monitoring everything thru the GPS module and wind direction), sets the radio frequency and transponder code (another feature that could be detected by the EFIS+radio+transponder) and uses the autopilot to set to the selected airport (Dynon could even be ahead in the game using the auto trim to set the aircraft to best glide speed).

Thoughts?
 

maartenversteeg

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Very scary if this were to be done all by the automation without asking questions. Even asking questions could cause extra load for the pilot in case of such an emergency. If it kills someone who is then responsible
 

d3mac123

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Very scary if this were to be done all by the automation without asking questions. Even asking questions could cause extra load for the pilot in case of such an emergency. If it kills someone who is then responsible
Automation (especially in emergency situations) is a trend in the industry, the reason why Garmin is spending millions on Autoland, Smart Glide, and other features. Other vendors/startups are also working on similar equipment. Are they on the wrong side of the future in your opinion?
 

maartenversteeg

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I lik ethe system to assist me, but deciding by it's own and changing settings immadiately seems a little concerning. I like easy access to features that help you like a simple button that gives you the nearest suitable airport, but immediately pointing the plane to that airport seems overddoing it, the pilot might see either a different option or know that there is not issue at all. It would require a very large amount of testing and verification before you get such a system in your home-build reliable to live with it's dicissions. Automatically switching trim might be very undecirable when you have ice or when aspects are broken, switching radio or transponders might make you loose contact with ATC and then it would help at all only increase a workload. Having the pilot make the decission seems safer Even the auto brake in my car makes wrong decissions (like braking for a cloud of leves created by someone cleaning the sidewalk or a turning car that you can easily see will have left your leane before you are close)and brakes where it shoudln't possibly creating problems for th car behind you.
 

Rhino

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There may be some misconceptions here. Smart Glide does not do anything without pilot input. The pilot has to choose to activate it. It does not change trim and does not fly the plane beyond using the autopilot to pitch for best glide speed if the pilot chooses to, which is a simple override if desired. It provides Highway in the Sky depiction to the nearest airport for the pilot to follow if he chooses, and it offers other options as well. It does't automatically pilot or navigate the aircraft. As far as I can see, it also doesn't change any frequencies unless the pilot chooses to use the recommended airport. The proposal here, automatic actions during engine failure and such, is a conglomeration of Smart Glide, Autoland and wishful thinking. It doesn't really exist as described. The reaction opposing an automatic takeover of aircraft functions is also unfounded. Smart Glide doesn't do that. Activation is entirely in the hands of the pilot, and the system doesn't take over the plane or commit significant action without pilot input. In essence, it simply provides options to the pilot that he'd normally find on his own, but without the distraction and delay involved with doing everything manually. It's an excellent idea to save time and prevent pilot distraction from increased workload. It should not automatically affect flight controls or navigation input, but Smart Glide doesn't do that now. Even if Dynon did not implement the automatic actions such as the pitch function of Smart Glide, the options provided by the system could still be very helpful in the event of an emergency. However, any development effort involves resource utilization that eventually makes it's way to the customer in the form of increased price. One advantage of Dynon over certified competitors is reduced price. So the question for me becomes, is this needed enough to justify a possible increase in cost? The answer is complicated, and is going to be different for each pilot. The expected benefit will vary greatly based on how, when and where they fly. For my simple plane and simple type of flying the benefit would be far smaller than it would be for an IFR pilot in a complicated aircraft. Then comes the problem with trying to assign value based on simply a perception of future danger or damage, which is impossible to do accurately or consistently. I think the possibility is certainly worth investigating, but I'm not yet convinced the outcome would be worth the expenditure at this point.
 

d3mac123

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Well said Rhino. Personally, having to upgrade my panel to IFR while I'm studying for my instrument checkride, I'd pay more for this feature. In IMC, I'll take any help automation can provide, specially just hitting a button or two. I'd love seing Dynon doing that the same way Garmin is doing for experimental G3x users, a free update that integrates all the system (yes, it asks for a single pilot input).

As I don't think Dynon will come with a similar system anytime soon, I guess I'll get a GTN device from Garmin and pray it will work well with the HDX via Arinc module. I know they are different size companies but, what has Dynon announced in the past years? Not much (the main announcement at OSH is wireless map upload via someone else's paid app) compared to Garmin (autoland, cheaper IFR gps units, update displays and now, Smart Glide).
 

Rhino

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Dynon is a much smaller company than Garmin and doesn't have anywhere near the resources to devote to such efforts. Plus they've been paying a lot of attention to getting approvals for certified aircraft lately, and that has undoubtedly stretched their resources even further. You're right that the system already has the ability to do what is needed. They just have to pull together a software solution to create a complete package that does what is needed, how it is needed, and when it is needed. That sounds simple, but having worked with software developers for many years, it's unfortunately nothing of the sort. I like the idea, and as you say it will be great for pilots in circumstances like yours. But keep in mind the Garmin customer base has a much higher percentage of pilots with those more advanced circumstances. They also have the advantage of already having passed more development hurdles due to the complexity of the approval process for their certified line, something Dynon is just starting to experience. Yes, they're both avionics companies making products that do essentially the same things, but too many people fail to realize that doesn't really make them similar. Garmin grew up in the certified world, and only relatively recently branched out into experimental. Dynon is the exact opposite, and that has created very different company structures, paradigms and focus. Any commercial company has to consider return on investment, and the number of customers that need a new product is obviously going to be a big factor. I'd really like to see it. I just don't know how the money situation will come into play, and to what extent. I do think we'll eventually see it. It's just a question of when.
 

RV14_TD

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The smart glide feature is by no means innovative. It's been implemented a long time ago in open-source gliding computer xc-soar as "task abort" flying mode. In this mode, xc-soar shows the available landing sites which are within gliding distance taking into account terrain, wind, wing-loading and other vital, but less relevant to powered flight community parameters.
I'm sure other gliding solutions offer similar or even better functionality, but the point I'm trying to make is that there is a piece of hight quality, open source code which could be re-used by Dynon to implement safe glide functionality. It does not require years of development.
And I strongly agree that it's a valuable feature.
 

d3mac123

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Reality is, I have talked to several people from Dynon at Oshkosh these past days and all I got was "it is something we can do with software but we cannot say when it will come".
 

andresmith76

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Reality is, I have talked to several people from Dynon at Oshkosh these past days and all I got was "it is something we can do with software but we cannot say when it will come".
"I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you."
 

RV14_TD

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from the above linked article:
"At that point, a touch of the Smart Glide button still activates the GFC autopilot in IAS mode for the stored glide speed while descending straight ahead"
if the "smart glide" does not take into account wind speed and direction to correct the best glide IAS, then it certainly does not deserve to be called "smart". Just imagine you glide towards an airport and face a 25 knots head wind. Or a 25 kn tail wind. How does that change the IAS one should fly? If you fly too slow, you won't make it. If you fly too fast, you won't make it as well. If you are so high that you don't really care because you are sure you will make it anyway then why bother with "smart glide"?
 

d3mac123

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from the above linked article:
"At that point, a touch of the Smart Glide button still activates the GFC autopilot in IAS mode for the stored glide speed while descending straight ahead"
if the "smart glide" does not take into account wind speed and direction to correct the best glide IAS, then it certainly does not deserve to be called "smart". Just imagine you glide towards an airport and face a 25 knots head wind. Or a 25 kn tail wind. How does that change the IAS one should fly? If you fly too slow, you won't make it. If you fly too fast, you won't make it as well. If you are so high that you don't really care because you are sure you will make it anyway then why bother with "smart glide"?
The article mentioned about the decision for a farther airport (instead of the closest one) due to the winds... To me, the most important thing is to have my workload reduced with an unexpected engine failure.
 
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