Stealth mode

paxhia

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Aug 12, 2011
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Cottonwood, AZ
In my flight today ADS-B was displaying traffic. Status was "partial" and weather was being reported. Another ADS-B equiped airplane could see all the same traffic I could see but he could not see me. I could see him no problem, any thoughts?
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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What transponder is in your plane, what mode was it in, what Mode-A code were you squawking, what Mode-A was he squawking, how far away was he, what transponder did he have, what ADS-B did he have, and where were you in the US?
 

paxhia

New Member
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Aug 12, 2011
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Location
Cottonwood, AZ
My airplane is all Skyview system, w/mode s, squawking 1200, orther airplane took off 2 or 3 minutes after me and passed by, up to 5 miles ahead, reversed course. We are flying out of P52, 90 miles north of Phoenix, AZ. I was seeing trafic from P52, sez, and prc. Altitudes up to 9000 msl for both aircraft. The other airplane has a full Garmin system with gramin transponder mode s w/es, garmin ADS-B, I dont know specific models on garmin but it was a new installation. I did recycle my transponder, did ident, alt, and auto. None of those actions let his system see me.
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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Ahh, I think I know why. The Garmin system is likely not DO-260B ADS-B out compliant and is not getting the ground stations to be active. Your airplane is lighting up the ground stations, which gets them to send out traffic. He's getting lucky and seeing all those targets because you turned the system on for him. If you weren't there, he'd see nothing.

The one target ADS-B won't send out is the one airplane it knows is listening, which is you. It figures that you have no reason to see yourself as a target, so it doesn't send you out, so he can't see you. It will only send you out if it knows another plane is around to listen, which requires that plane to be ADS-B OUT equipped and up to date with the regs.

To prove this, you could try turning your transponder off for 30 or more seconds and I bet all his traffic would go away.

This is all likely true because Garmin has only had DO-260B in their mode-S transponders for a few weeks now, so unless he has had the firmware updated, it isn't up to date. Also, if this is a G3X system, he'd need to have a certified GPS wired to his transponder, and it would need to be running firmware from about 2 months ago or newer as well. All of this needs to be done by a Garmin dealer.

In the end though, this sounds like a question for Garmin, not us. ADS-B traffic is a complex thing, and they could easily be filtering you out for some reason even if they did see you. Your buddy also needs to talk to them about the system he bought and find out what it is and isn't capable of before you think it has anything to do with your plane or avionics.

Remember, in a fully compliant ADS-B system, you can see every plane ATC can, no matter what equipment they have on board, so he should be able to see you even with your transponder off if you are in a radar area (indicated by "ADS-B full" on a SkyView when you transponder is on)
 

paxhia

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Aug 12, 2011
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Location
Cottonwood, AZ
Thank you for the response, we are planning a flight in the morning from P52 to E25. I will turn off my transponder and see what happens. Is there a way to tell what ADS-B station or stations I am picking up?
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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As in which specific ADS-B ground tower you are receiving? No, we don't have that capability. We do have a ADS-B status page that shows how many you are receiving though.
 

paxhia

New Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
29
Location
Cottonwood, AZ
No change in results when I turned off the transponder the other aircraft could not see me but he was able to see other traffic. We dont know if one of them became the new host. As an aside I was 10 miles from Prescott and the tower was able be identify me on their radar.
The other airplane is sending his transponder back to the Garmin dealer for a software update. That may be the problem. More to follow when it comes back. I need more friends with ABS-B in Cottonwood, AZ.
 
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