System Reliability

[stevengrasley]

Hello everyone,

I'm in the process of finishing the canopy and hanging the engine/cowl on an RV-7A build as my last two major items before saying "Dun!". Dying to get flying. I have a full Skyview system installed and running...well sort of. I have dual D700's and one of them was DOA out of the box from Spruce. That went back under an RMA. The guys at the shop checked with me and my other display was a close serial number from the dead one. I'm told both were from a known SN run with some problems. So they issued another RMA and the second display is currently in the shop. I fired everything up when the first display came back before sending in the second display...I also fired up the ADS-B box I ordered...and everything was running great after working out a few set up bugs with the ARINC-429 and by GNS-430W. So I sent in the second display and they are working on that one right now.

Tonight I just wanted to practice uploading nav data updates. All seemed fine but after about 10 minutes I got a MSG on my 430W. Thought it was going to say NO SATELLITES because I was in the hangar. But, it said NO ARINC-429 DATA. Hmm...long story short I found the ARINC 429 module with a solid red LED. Used a different network connection and no change. Dead.

So...I'm not even flying yet and I'm about to send 3 boxes from my system in for service. Making me a little nervous if you know what I mean.

I have not previously heard of reliability issues with Dynon's SV system. Am I nervous prematurely? What does the world feel out there about overall system reliability? I have like 10 boxes in my system (dual displays, dual ADAHRS, HUB, GPS, xponder, ADS-B, ARINC-429, EMS, and pitch & roll servos) and I don't want to be like a 747 with something always broken. Is this typical build issues or not?

Steve

 

[rfazio1951]

Steven, I've been flying for 2 1/2 years with my system. 10" skyview, adahrs, gps, ems, auto pilot, and recently added ads-b, and transponder. I have to tell you everything in my system has worked exactly as it was supposed to right out of the box. I have not had any problems with things not working or dying while flying. I have had a couple of minor hiccups that I will list. I am curious about others, experiences. Maybe we could get some more responses. First, my ems module was giving me crazy high egt & cht when I hit the ptt button on my radio. I sent it in, once Dynon figured it out, and now it's perfect. Not a big deal. Second, while flying to Sun&Fun using the auto pilot, I'm in NY, the system lost the pitch servo, after I stopped for fuel. I didn't realize what happened and did know what to do. When I landed again, I just did a network discovery and found the servo again and all has been well since. I had to fly one leg with no pitch servo, again not a big deal. I could probably have fixed it in the air, but wasn't sure at the time, so I figured I should wait till I landed. Third and last, just a few weeks ago, I installed my new ADS-B & transponder. While flying for the first time and being amazed at all the stuff on the screen, I noticed no wind direction? Then I noticed no percent power? I'm thinking what's going on here, and I see the outside air temp coming on and off a few times. With it the wind shows up, percent power? I thought I had a bad connection in the outside air temp sensor. I landed and later checked everything. Everything was perfect, I flew again and everything is fine? Can't figure that one out, but the system has been fine since. I am totally happy with my system, and am figuring what I'm adding next.

 

[shenweas]

Another data point

I have a SV 10inch, AHARS, EMS, ARINC 429 so far (less than 1 year and 230 flight hrs) I have had to return the SV screen for not starting (lines in screen), SV-BAT (would not hold charge), MAP transducer (was leaking internaly resulting in errorous MAP readings). The part that bites me is in every case Dynon has asked me to return there defective item on my dime. end of rant.

 

[skypilot1104]

Unfortunately, I am having issues also... First 10" screen was DOA, (12/21/2012) lines across the screen, no boot. Dynon RMA'd it at no cost, and sent a replace immediately... Second unit seemed to work fine up until I installed the AP servos, discovers, calibrates, sees raw data, but won't move the servos. Two bad servos? not likely, removed everything from the plane and had my avionics shop bench test with same results, no movement, Another RMA (My Dime) to send 10" and servers in to test as a unit. The other day out of the blue, I got a full screen "RED X" EMS Failed. I have not started flying yet, basically the same place in the build as you. VERY NERVOUS!! :-/

 

[cperry]

How have my aircraft electronics failed me, let me count the ways...
- VPX Sport - flaps wouldn't come up, so RMA (burnt diode)
- SV1000 - some kind of weird failure, so RMA
- SV-EMS-220 - egt/cht issue...will send it back when I get around to it
- Narco XPNDR - puff of smoke when plugged in, so RMA, still didn't work, repaired myself (incorrectly installed capacitor), sold it, then replaced with the Dynon Xpndr
- Flightcom intercom - puff of smoke when plugged in (circuit board touching aluminum case), replaced by RMA, still didn't work as intended, so dropped
- ICOM A210 - terrible squelch control and i/c, so back for firmware update cuz apparently us pilot types aren't intelligent enough to do this ourselves
- Dynon MP sensor cooked
- Strobe light cooked out of the box, replaced by supplier

No issues with SV-ADAHRS, SV A/P Servos, SV Xpndr, Trim Servos, Strobe Power Pack, Artex ELT, or Pitot Heat.
But that still means a good 40% of the electronic components purchased for my 9A were either supplied defective or died soon after being connected...not a very good overall success rate for the experimental aviation electronics industry as a whole. I wish I could say it was my wiring that caused the issues, but in each case, everything worked perfect when plugged back into the unchanged wiring. Maybe its the Canadian air?

With regard to Dynon, they didn't hesitate at all to do the RMA work on the screen. The MP sensor was long out of warranty by the time I got a screen to test it, so I ended up having to buy a new one myself...but I'll get over the extra $60 in the big picture. The EMS issue has been an on-going engineering struggle for some time by the sounds of it...a difficult problem to predict and identify...I'm happy Dynon is willing to fix the issue now that they know what causes it.

 

[RobertHamilton]

This is Robert Hamilton, the new President at Dynon. I felt I needed to respond to these comments myself, as the topic is high on my priority list.

“Quality” is a huge subject that I could spend months talking about. And will be. During February you will be hearing more about this subject from us in our newsletter. In short, we know where quality has fallen short and over the past year we have been doing something about it. Our expectation is 100% perfect products out the door, and extreme reliability in use during the life of an aircraft. Our products should have quality and reliability as high as, or better than, certified products. We ship ten times as many glass panels as anyone else in this market, and we are very open in our communication with customers, so any warts at all get reported. All the more reason to have zero warts.

Over the past year we assigned two people to focus full-time on quality; re-assigning one of our existing engineers and we also hired a second quality expert. Their job has been to perform a deep dive into reported faults to determine root causes, and also to make process improvements to our supply chain and production to better measure and improve quality. One result is that we better understand that design and production quality is not enough; we also have to have better control over raw components. Another result is that we have fixed known causes and measurably improved quality.

It is hard to quantitatively measure our quality against other avionic manufacturers. But we can measure our own quality, and commit to meeting the very high expectations of our customers and ourselves.

 

[preid]

Robert, back before he was promoted, and still does knew me by name, as he should, he personally gave me a tour of the facility 4 years ago told me about the R&D, showed me the box that was used for testing and calibration and I could tell he was passionate about having the best product on the market even then. I also drove him for 2 years to get the Skyview and VP-200 to work together. His personal response with this thread shows nothing has changed, except his position to make it that much more possible
I encourage anyone when in the Seattle area to stop off at Dynon and meet the team, do the free seminars and see that they really are a great company.
I know I have had my share of hardware issues and drove the EGT/CHT issue to the ground, but in the end it was fixed and the issue has ceased on my panel. The Virtual VOR? I am currently beating that issue and Dynon is listening. Sure they have hardware issues but support has never questioned doing the right thing for me, and I am no different tham most customers, except I complain more.
I have another piece of Hardware, it's certified and it's expensive as heck to get anyone to talk to me about it in support except telling me to send it in (minimum $450 charge up front too) and I need a certified avionics guy to "look at it". Sure there are issues with experimental hardware but I'll take that anyday to the blue lettered certified company that charges for $upport.
As much as I may have had issues Dynon is #1 on my panel.

 

[Wal_Thompson]

It's early days yet, but my newly installed SV-1000 + TXPDR + ADHRS are flawless. I really like the firmware updgrade process too, it's trivial to do and addressess the issues raised in this community. I'm happy.

 

[cperry]

I'd also like to toss in that, if you read through these forums you might get the impression that these electronic components get tossed together in someone's basement and never even turned on before being shipped...but the reality is you never hear from the vast majority of the people that plugged everything in and went flying with no major issues.

Even with my long list of issues noted above, I agree that the overall quality of the Dynon product is top notch. My SV1000 issue was a very minor one, the EMS issue as we know was a very difficult one to identify, and Dynon doesn't even make the MP sensor, so can't really blame them for that one. I've got 19hrs on the bird now, and not looking back on the Skyview choice. Its a fantastic system to fly behind.

 

[lolachampcar]

10" Skyview, EMS, Txp, ADAHARS +12/-6Gs several times a week in an all carbon plane (more vibration than most) and ZERO hardware issues.  The stuff is rock solid!

Forgot- and roll/pitch servos.... At 4 3/4 lbs total added weight, I just could not resist

 

[dabear]

Have I had problems with some of the hardware from Dynon, yes.

Have I had problems with the support from Dynon, NEVER.

They have been, from the begining, a great company to get support from. I've been in the high-tech (networking, computers, storage, etc.) field for 26 years and have never had as good support as I get from Dynon.

Just my opinion.

 

[mmarien]

I bought my SV1000 system a few months after it was released and put a few hundred hours on it since then. Coast to coast this year. I'll have to admit I bought the system purely on the aesthetics. Call me shallow. However, it has performed flawless since I installed it. A difficult thing to achieve considering the complexity of the system.

I'll recommend it to anyone that asks if it fits their plane and style.

 

[Dynon]

A couple of weeks ago, Robert mentioned that we've been investing heavily in quality here at Dynon, and today we have more to talk about: As a direct result of that quality engineering effort, we've uncovered an issue that affects some SkyView displays that warrants corrective action via a technical service bulletin. For those of you that haven't signed up for our newsletter, you can read it here. It has some additional background about the issue, as well as links to the actual service bulletin (also available directly here).

Michael Schofield
Marketing / Product Manager
Dynon Avionics

 

[Edwardoc]

I noticed in the SB that it calls for 5.1 to be loaded. Is that a requirement to see the version under the serial number. Have been delaying loading 5.0 or 5.1 since 4.0 is working so well and didn't want to take a chance yet.

 

[Dynon]

Unfortunately, that's the only definitive way to check. It's not just serial number that's important, but the version of a particular piece of hardware inside the display. That piece of hardware doesn't tie directly to display serial numbers, but, 5.1 is able to check its version.

 

[jrv]

Hi,

Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else. I am about to place an order for a Skyview SV1000 etc. Are the units in suppliers stock now affected. Don't want to get a new unit and then have to ship it back.
Thanks

 

[dynonsupport]

The last affected unit shipped from Dynon more than a year ago. Stock from the last year is not in the range that is affected.

 

[stevengrasley]

I would say this topic got a lot more response than I expected. But this is very healthy dialogue for sure. I have to report Dynon has responded very quickly in all cases. And their head QC weenie reached out unilaterally and offered more insight and support to prove it. All very good signs. And for the president to jump in on this thread...well that's the real testament. I had a lofty job at Allied-Signal/Bendix-King air transport through the 90's and the quality issues were enough to gray my hair. But a focus of monumental proportions on 6-sigma from old Motorola led to similarly monumental improvement. But not before Gary Burrel and Min Kao were fed up and left to start Garmin. I wonder where old BK would be today if they could have kept that duo. But from where I sit now I think Dynon is leading the avionics world in a big way. There is more bang for your buck and more passion at Dynon than any other company certified or not IMO. I'm hooked and fully invested and will continue to make noise when needed. But in the meantime I still need to finish the canopy, bolt the wings back on and finish the coweling so I can fly this cool gear.

By the way, in my hangar on the ground getting full ADS-B weather info. Wow! I simply can't imagine life back with steam gauges and Flight watch.