Take off and Landing Time

[WT9]

Hi Dynon!

One more Idea for a future update.
Isn´t it possible to save the last (or more) take off and Landing Time in the EFIS?
When the airspeed is coming on, the EFIS can store the Time (now we have GPS-Time :)
And the EFIS can store the Time after getting slower then 30 kts!
I think it wouldn´t be a great Problem for Dynon after the last great Update!
There should be a page with Take off Time - Landing Time - and calculated Flight Time!!!
You will help many pilots forgetting to note Take off and Landing Time ;D

Regards,

John

 

[Thomas_Schaad]

Great Idea, I do support it very much, you got my vote for!

Rgds

Thomas

 

[WT9]

Dynon ....

what do you say? Is this a possible feature for the future?

John

 

[JetJockey]

I really don't think this kind of feature belongs on an ADI. It would be more suited for a EMS system since you could then tie it into an oil pressure sensor to determine engine start and stop times. Most people are more concerned about block time rather than actual flight time anyway. Additionally, your methodology of determining OFF and ON times might work fine for a straight and level pilot but someone that is out doing acro is going to get all sorts of erroneous times if you work strictly off airspeed.

 

[dynonsupport]

It's an interesting idea. No reason to store both takeoff and landing time- takeoff time plus flight time equals landing time.

I agree with JetJockey- if we do this, it would be on the EMS, not the EFIS. The EMS is the product where we keep track of flight times, hobbs time, and tach time.

 

[Thomas_Schaad]

Why not creating a "Flight Summary Page" that pops up after landing. This page could include:

- Take Off Time
- Landing Time
- Time Flown
- Distance Flown
- Fuel used
- ....... any other ideas........  

Kind regards

Thomas

 

[dynonsupport]

When is "after landing"? I know I still use the tachometer and other EMS data after I land and while I taxi, and maybe I'm turning right back around to depart again.

We generally stay away from automated screen changes because it's impossible to know when it's okay to change and when it isn't.

Almost all the info you want is on the ems screen already, and it doesn't reset when you land. Adding distance flown is an interesting one, but your GPS is always going to be more accurate at this than we are.

 

[Thomas_Schaad]

When is "after landing"?
You could give options, just two of them coming to my mind:

- Speed below 30 Knots IAS
- Engine shut down

I personally would prefer the second one. So I could turn of the engine, switch of avionics etc. and before switching off the battery master, I could get all those numbers from the EMS.

By the way, this is not my inventon, several manufacturers of FMS's as for example Honeywell do have those kind of pages, coming up after landing.

Best regards

Thomas

 

[dynonsupport]

There are planes that stall below our minimum airspeed, and as I say, that would make the page pop up while you were still on the runway, or possibly in the middle of a hammerhead. Airspeed doesn't work for this application.

We could do engine stop. But if your engine sizes in flight, your p-lead wire breaks, or a whole bunch of other things, your screen will suddenly flip on you, right in the middle of an emergency. This seems bad.

I'd bet the big guys that do this have actual links to a whole bunch of things in the plane like landing gear switches, squat switches, engine "run" switches, etc that let them do a very good idea of deciding when you are really on the ground, stopped, and decided to turn off the engines. These systems are designed specifically for the plane they are installed in. We just don't have all that info and we really don't want to pop up a screen at the wrong time.

 

[JetJockey]

We just don't have all that info and we really don't want to pop up a screen at the wrong time.

Amen. Timex already makes a wonderful device that can do all of these things..... It's called a wristwatch.

 

[WT9]

It was only an Idea :-[ Because in Europe the Billing is about the exactly Flight Time. Therefore we have to notice the Take off and Landing Time. Here you can buy a stand alone Product which do this for a lot of money http://www.oskar-clickfly.de/
The Block Time is not interested for Billing! We don´t use the Block Time in small Aircraft´s.

Dynon .... It is nice to have the complete Time page on the EMS - But I have only a D100 :'(
Therefore I thought it is no Proplem for Dynon to program storing the Take Off and Landing Time for a further feature!
The Problem with speed below x kts - I think it´s also not a big one! Perhaps in the setup it would be possible to set the Speed for each aircraft.
And if the Airspeed is not enough it can be coupled with the Altitude going up?

Regards
John

 

[Thomas_Schaad]

It was only an Idea    Because in Europe........

So did I think, when I brought my proposal in. But as you see......... there will come up x-more arguments why it should not work. Trio Avionics made it work on their autopilots, so....

At least we do have decent watches over here and don't need to look up the time from a Timex!   

Kind regards
Thomas

 

[WT9]

Dynon .... It is nice to have the complete Time page on the EMS - But I have only a D100 :'(

But perhaps I will order a EMS-D10 next year!

And until next year, perhaps after cut off the main Power from the EFIS (and EMS) there will apear a screen (during time to acknoledge for stand by with the Backup-Battery) with all Information of the last flight:

- Take Off Time
- Landing Time
- Time Flown
- Distance Flown
- Fuel used
- Average Fuel used

: ;D

Regards, John

 

[dynonsupport]

John,

When your alternator fails in your airplane, do you want the EFIS switching screens on you?

How will the EFIS give you fuel used if you don't have an EMS?

What is the definition of landing time? What happens if you land somewhere and then take off? Does it reset? Does it reset when you do aerobatics and your airspeed goes to zero multiple times?

We're not avoiding putting this stuff in our product because it's hard to write the code. We're avoiding putting it in because it doesn't work since accurately detecting take-off and landing is impossible with just the data in an EFIS. If someone gives us a set of things we can test for in just the EFIS that promises that the aircraft has landed and the pilot now wants to have his screen switched on him, we'll do it. It needs to work on all airplanes the EFIS gets installed in, and so far, we haven't been able to come up with that set of readings.

 

[echo_sierra]

well, if airspeed equal 0 for more than 5 seconds, altitude hasn't changed more than 50ft during the last 30 seconds and heading hasn't changed more than 20° for the last 5 seconds then i guess we can think the airplane has landed and pop up the screen giving the option to reset the data or not...

Just an idea...

Thanks for your good work

 

[echo_sierra]

up...

 

[WT9]

I try it again - the last one! :-[

For flying in Europe it would be a very great feature to implement the Real Flight Time in the Time Page. Why to the EMS? In the EMS there are so many Times yet. But not in the EFIS. It´s OK to have the BlockTime on the EMS according to the Oil Pressure. I think the Real Flight Time on the EFIS is a good solution (even to have only a EFIS).

It would be a revolution like the HSI for us Pilots in Europe! Because many of us have to use a stand alone instrument like this for nearly $400 to get the flight time. http://www.winter-instruments.de/english/produkte/flugstunden.html We don´t use BlockTime - only FlightTime!

I know that you are not interested of the Flight Time outside from Europe - therefore DYNON do it for the many Pilots in Europe using Dynon Products! They become more and more !!!

I think as posted by "echo sierra" :

if airspeed equal 0 for more than 5 seconds, altitude hasn't changed more than 50ft during the last 30 seconds and heading hasn't changed more than 20° for the last 5 seconds then i guess we can think the airplane has landed

I think it´s a easy job for you Dynon if you want to do it!

Regards John

 

[echo_sierra]

I try it again - the last one!  :-[

For flying in Europe it would be a very great feature to implement the Real Flight Time in the Time Page. Why to the EMS? In the EMS there are so many Times yet. But not in the EFIS. It´s OK to have the BlockTime on the EMS according to the Oil Pressure. I think the Real Flight Time on the EFIS is a good solution (even to have only a EFIS).

It would be a revolution like the HSI for us Pilots in Europe! Because many of us have to use a stand alone instrument like this for nearly $400 to get the flight time. http://www.winter-instruments.de/english/produkte/flugstunden.html We don´t use BlockTime - only FlightTime!

I know that you are not interested of the Flight Time outside from Europe - therefore DYNON do it for the many Pilots in Europe using Dynon Products! They become more and more !!!  

I think as posted by "echo sierra" :

I think it´s a easy job for you Dynon if you want to do it!

Regards John

Great, i felt a little bit alone on this one so Dynon, can you think about it???...

Regards, Eric

 

[dynonsupport]

We do read everything here but do not always respond.

Right now, we do not have firm plans to implement a flight timer on the EFIS, though it's certainly something that we'll keep under consideration