Trend Vectors

[JetJockey]

Dear Dynon,

While looking at your new and improved D-10A display, something jumped out at me that you might consider revisiting. In the airline and military EFIS world, the de facto standard for anything magenta on the EFIS display is something "desired", i.e. desired track, desired airspeed, desired altitude, etc. From your picture, it looks like you are using magenta colored trend vectors. The trend vectors aren't desired values, rather they are predicted values. While you certainly have the right to choose which colors you wish to use on your products, I would think you would want to stay as close to the standard as possible. I can't speak for Airbus since my company doesn't have any, but Boeing uses green trend vectors on the PFD and ND, as well as various engine indicators. (I can send you some pictures if you like.)

This is a minor detail but something you might really consider revising in order to add a more professional appearance to your already outstanding product.

Regards,
Ray

 

[6rv]

Dear Dynon,

While looking at your new and improved D-10A display, something jumped out at me that you might consider revisiting.  In the airline and military EFIS world, the de facto standard for anything magenta on the EFIS display is something "desired", i.e. desired track, desired airspeed, desired altitude, etc.  From your picture, it looks like you are using magenta colored trend vectors.  The trend vectors aren't desired values, rather they are predicted values.  While you certainly have the right to choose which colors you wish to use on your products, I would think you would want to stay as close to the standard as possible.  I can't speak for Airbus since my company doesn't have any, but Boeing uses green trend vectors on the PFD and ND, as well as various engine indicators.  (I can send you some pictures if you like.)

This is a minor detail but something you might really consider revising in order to add a more professional appearance to your already outstanding product.

Regards,
Ray

Jetjockey,

Exactly what are you basing these claims on?  For the record, there are no established standards for trend vectors as you claim.  If you disagree, then please site a reference to an FAR, Advisory Circular, or TSO that mandates green for trend vectors.  One manufacturer's (Boeing) implementation does not establigh a standard.  Magenta is currently used for trend vectors in many aircraft.  Examples include the G-IV, Global Express, Dornier 328 Regional Jet.  All Honeywell packages that I've flown use magenta.  Dynon is keeping with current convention with this update.

Dynon,  

Outstanding update.  Nothing unprofessional about it.  Please don't change the display.

 

[JetJockey]

Hey cool your jets Mr. 6RV. I was merely making an observation. I didn't state that this was an established standard, look up the definition of de facto before you start going off. I also didn't state that Dynon had an unprofessional product. I stated it would make their great product even more professional. As for magenta trend vectors on the aircraft you listed, I'll take your word for it, I haven't flown them. I can tell you that the following do have the DE FACTO standard of green for trends, every Boeing aircraft I've ever seen or flown, the Douglas MD-90, Canadair CRJs, the C-40, and the C-17. I happened to jumpseat home on an Embraer E-170 yesterday and they also use green. And just to check, I called a buddy at NWA to see what Airbus uses for trends, yep they're green. That's a pretty big cross section of manufacturers using the same convention. Now how you can make the statement that Dynon is keeping with current convention because a handful of BizJets use magenta is beyond me.

Like I said in my original post (which you apparently didn't read very closely); Dynon is free to use whatever colors they choose, it makes absolutely no difference to me. I just wanted them to be aware of a possible non-conformity to a "standard" that much of the rest of the world has settled on.

Have a great day.

Ray

 

[dynonsupport]

We want to thank both of you for your input on our trend indicators. Before this becomes a bigger issue than it needs to be, we'd just like to state that we welcome all kinds of feedback on our products. This is a fast-moving industry, and everyone is always playing catchup with everyone else. We do our best to walk the fine line between staying current with the industry and coming up with new ideas. Sometimes we miss, but we feel we usually hit.

So, again, thanks to both of you for your feedback.

 

[JetJockey]

And thank you again for a great product. Keep up the good work.

Regards,
Ray

 

[Bill_Denton]

"every Boeing aircraft I've ever seen or flown, the Douglas MD-90, Canadair CRJs, the C-40, and the C-17. I happened to jumpseat home on an Embraer E-170 yesterday and they also use green. And just to check, I called a buddy at NWA to see what Airbus uses for trends, yep they're green."

I must say, that's a very impressive string of airplanes. Or, more accurately, an impressive string of airplanes that very few of us will ever fly.

But a lot of us will get to fly Cessnas or Diamonds or Mooneys or (finally) some Pipers, all of which use the Garmin G1000 system.

And the G1000 uses magenta trend indicators. I'd call that pretty much a definitive de facto standard for light aircraft.

BTW: I can't find it now, but a couple of years ago, I read something that I believe was from the NBAA, that outlined some standards for all of this stuff.

Maybe someone else can lay their hands on it...

 

[JetJockey]

Bill,

While I can't say I have flown all the aircraft you list, I have jumpseated on all of them and seen the differences between them. As different as some of the presentations are, the color standard seems to be a common thread. I also seem to recall that a protocol that was being floated around a few years back regarding EFIS standards. You would think that if there is such a document, the world's two major aircraft manufacturers would most likely already be using those recommendations. (In fact, they are probably the ones that wrote it!) Regardless, many of the people that are flying the light aircraft today are the professional pilots of tomorrow. Wouldn't it make more sense for Garmin (and Dynon) to get in line with the big iron manufacturers' standards since these young guys and gals will be flying the other presentations in the future? I can guarantee you that Boeing didn't just pick a random color out of the crayon box when they designed their displays. Lots of time and money was spent on research to arrive at the present display format. Don't get me wrong, it isn't perfect. For reasons unknown to me, the NG HUD presentation differs slightly from the PFD but everything else in the airplane seems to conform to a single standard WRT format and color. Garmin makes wonderful products, but they are fairly new to the EFIS business and I seriously doubt that they did anywhere near the R&D that Boeing and Airbus did when they arrived at their display formats.

Again, this issue makes little difference to me. I haven't needed or even truly see a need for trend vectors in an aircraft like mine. The point of my initial post was simply to bring to the attention of the Dynon folks something that they might want to reconsider prior to release of their upgrade. Everything else they did emulates the Boeing PFD, why not finish the job?

Regards,
Ray

 

[khorton]

Maybe it would be nice someday to have a way for the user to customize the colours of the various display items.  You could either have an interface on the EFIS to allow item colours to be selected, or you could allow the user to edit a config file on a PC.  If the config file was found to be invalid, then the system would revert to its default colours.  There would also be a menu item to select between default colours and one or more custom colour sets.

This way pilots who were used to the colour convention on one aircraft type could emulate it on the Dynon EFIS.  If you allowed multiple selectable colour sets, then multiple pilots on that aircraft could each have their own colour set.  If there were multiple colour sets defined, the EFIS could have a selectable option on ground start (defined as airspeed less than XX and attitude stable) to present a menu to allow the user to select which colour set he wanted.  Or, one colour set could be defined as the default.