Has anyone looked at integrating the uAvionix echoUAT with their Skyview? Do you know if the Skyview will display traffic and weather from the EchoUAT? I am intrigued with its small footprint, reasonable cost to comply, and integration with our Skyview and Garmin 327 xpdr.
uAvionix ADSB Solution
- Thread starter Pmhowe
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The EchoUAT's ADS-B data output format is not compatible with SkyView.
What uAvionix tech support emailed me is that you can use the Skyview to "set up" the echo. I was hoping the communication was bi-directional but appears that isn't the case currently. I am still interested in it though as it is extremely cost effective at about 1500 adding a WAAS GPS + installation.
Support;
is the data compatibility a limitation of Uavionix or Dynon? I know it can be done because Dynon uses a version from them already for the in house ADS-B, which I would purchase if I could do everything the Echo does, specifically keep my transponder (that works fine).
I can certainly ask Uavionix but I wonder if its a contratual conflict of interest and hence not being allowed/released.
Thank you!
is the data compatibility a limitation of Uavionix or Dynon? I know it can be done because Dynon uses a version from them already for the in house ADS-B, which I would purchase if I could do everything the Echo does, specifically keep my transponder (that works fine).
I can certainly ask Uavionix but I wonder if its a contratual conflict of interest and hence not being allowed/released.
Thank you!
We use technology from uAvionix for our SV-ADSB-472 dual band receiver only. But their technology is not in any part of our ADS-B out solution, which is our SV-GPS-2020 (or other TSO'd GPS) + the SV-XPNDR-261.
We've learned that supporting third-party products in these scenarios is hard for a few reasons. When something doesn't work quite right, there is often finger-pointing, but really, this is an artifact of having less control over the final product. It's also difficult to build a business case to support 3rd party components for functions that we have our own solution for, and that's in play here. ADS-B Out is a particularly sensitive area, as it involves FAR compliance issues. There is deep engineering and analysis required to create an ADS-B Out solution that is FAR-compliant. It involves the complete system, including the position source, the transmitter, and anything else in between (SkyView, in our system's case). We take this very seriously. It's not trivial - we work carefully with the FAA and our technology partners to ensure that we're producing a compliant system. In cases where we haven't done that deep engineering dive, we can't make any compliance claim. Because we're at the center of the system, only we can make such a claim if SkyView's in the mix.
So in summary: SkyView does not currently support any non-Dynon ADS-B out solutions that integrate directly with SkyView. Any claims that it does are not made with our support. And without our support, we do not believe it is possible for a compliance claim to be made. (This wouldn't apply to a system that is not at all connected to SkyView, of course. But once data is passing through SkyView, it becomes part of the system, and only the provider of the entire system can define what makes a compliant solution - based on their engineering and testing)
We've learned that supporting third-party products in these scenarios is hard for a few reasons. When something doesn't work quite right, there is often finger-pointing, but really, this is an artifact of having less control over the final product. It's also difficult to build a business case to support 3rd party components for functions that we have our own solution for, and that's in play here. ADS-B Out is a particularly sensitive area, as it involves FAR compliance issues. There is deep engineering and analysis required to create an ADS-B Out solution that is FAR-compliant. It involves the complete system, including the position source, the transmitter, and anything else in between (SkyView, in our system's case). We take this very seriously. It's not trivial - we work carefully with the FAA and our technology partners to ensure that we're producing a compliant system. In cases where we haven't done that deep engineering dive, we can't make any compliance claim. Because we're at the center of the system, only we can make such a claim if SkyView's in the mix.
So in summary: SkyView does not currently support any non-Dynon ADS-B out solutions that integrate directly with SkyView. Any claims that it does are not made with our support. And without our support, we do not believe it is possible for a compliance claim to be made. (This wouldn't apply to a system that is not at all connected to SkyView, of course. But once data is passing through SkyView, it becomes part of the system, and only the provider of the entire system can define what makes a compliant solution - based on their engineering and testing)
I would consider the Dynon ADSB solution if the Mode S transponder could be eliminated. uAvionics (and formerly Navworx) will give me the ability to be anonymous while squawking 1200 VFR while simultaneously providing all the ADSB data the FAA needs for traffic separation. Simply not willing to give up my privacy for their convenience. IFR they get all the data including N number and I am OK with that. Hate to replace a transponder that works. Any chance you can have your transponder not output full Mode S all the time Dynon? Could you update the software to only output Mode A & C when squawking 1200? I am asking because I do not know if that feature could be added via software in your transponder.
Please consider an ECHO option versus the requirement to invest in a $1800 mode S transponder in order to get ADS-B IN. I would gladly continue purchasing future Dynon hardware if it was reasonable and affordable. I do not want to pull out a perfectly working transponder (which is currently working with the skyview)and replace with a new one, the financial investment and time is not worth it. ECHO and other options are less expensive and require far less work to install. If Dynon is going to limit the 3rd party hardware compatibility, please offer a Dynon version of the ECHO as part of the relationship already in place with Uavionix. It would solve many issues, 1) receive top tech support for the product 2) know I'll get the best options for ADS-B compliance 3) Done all at an easy to install and affordable price point without a need to replace any hardware already installed on panel.
Thank you!
Thank you!
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It is not possible to build a Mode-S transponder that switches Mode to Mode-C or Mode-A, and a Mode-S must always emit your ICAO ID. These are different TSO's so you can't just write software that flops between the modes and still be compliant with the "meets the TSO" legal requirements.
Also, just as an FYI, but you can't use anonymous mode when on a flight plan or using ATC services:
"Finally, the AIM will now clarify that after January 1, 2020, aircraft with 978UAT ADS-B avionics capable of broadcasting an anonymous 24-bit ICAO address may do so only when the pilot has not filed a flight plan and is not requesting ATC services. “Operators should be aware that in UAT anonymous mode they will not be eligible to receive ATC separation and flight following services and will likely not benefit from enhanced ADS-B search and rescue capabilities,” the AIM says."
Up to you to interpret if "ATC services" means entering any towered airspace, but it appears the FAA is weakening the use of anonymous mode.
I (and I suspect many others) don't really care much about ADSB-out integration and will happily use the echoUAT with my existing GPS and transponder. However, I have not seen any technical reason for the lack of ADSB-in support. This is especially confusing given that the supported ADSB-in product has uAvionix hardware inside. I hope this isn't a case of deliberate incompatibility for *only* business reasons. Freedom from that sort of behavior is the entire reason I avoid Garmin when possible. If what Dynon is trying to do is become the next Garmin, maybe I should be looking more closely at GRT and MGL, both of whose panels will display echoUAT data.
License option?
I talked with Dynon at Oshkosh about another possible option to allow the Echo to display ADSB IN data on the Skyview. This would entail Dynon making it possible for me to take the information output from the Echo to the Skyview over serial. I would be willing to pay a licensing fee to have this capability. This way Dyon is compensated for their work and not competing against their own ADSB 472. Small airplanes are tremendous fun to fly but I do not have room to add another box and another antenna which like all the rest, is supposed to be separated by almost three feet from exisiting and required antennas.
I talked with Dynon at Oshkosh about another possible option to allow the Echo to display ADSB IN data on the Skyview. This would entail Dynon making it possible for me to take the information output from the Echo to the Skyview over serial. I would be willing to pay a licensing fee to have this capability. This way Dyon is compensated for their work and not competing against their own ADSB 472. Small airplanes are tremendous fun to fly but I do not have room to add another box and another antenna which like all the rest, is supposed to be separated by almost three feet from exisiting and required antennas.
wingsonwheels
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It is unfortunate that dynon has chosen to be non-compatable. I understand the business reasons that drove that decision, but I am still disappointed. Like the others here, I have no need or desire to replace a perfectly fine transponder. The skyview direct control xponder interface is of no value to me. It is not like the Comm which adds useful features, it just moves the knobs from one side of the panel to the other.
It does feel like dynon is going more the direction of Garmin. Many of the adsb in units use the GDL90 protocol (which is the closest thing out there to a universal standard), but the skyview is not compatable so they can maintain control (both business and technical).
I truely hope Dynon doesn't continue this proprietary trend, or I may regret my choice of EFIS.
It does feel like dynon is going more the direction of Garmin. Many of the adsb in units use the GDL90 protocol (which is the closest thing out there to a universal standard), but the skyview is not compatable so they can maintain control (both business and technical).
I truely hope Dynon doesn't continue this proprietary trend, or I may regret my choice of EFIS.