Washington wildfire TFRs not showing in SkyView

[Eric_Greenwell]

This morning, I flew from Richland, WA, to Brewster, WA. SV showed only a few of the many wildfire TFRs (see picture) in the Pateros/Brewster area compared to Foreflight. That was a big shock, as I have always had the same TFRs show on SV and Foreflight. Why are they missing from SV, and how do I correct the problem?

 

[Dynon]

We're out in your neck too an noticed the same thing on the way to and from Osh. We're investigating.

 

[Eric_Greenwell]

Any understanding of the problem yet? Does it affect SV 11 as well as SV 10? With so many TFRs this season, I'm eager for a resolution.

 

[Dynon]

We don't have an update here yet.

 

[Eric_Greenwell]

Today, I flew with SV 10.2, landed, installed SV 11, and flew again.

SV 10.2 showed the same problem I describe above; SV 11 added a few more of the fire TFRs, but was still missing three of them in northern Washington. Bizarrely, it showed the additional TFRs in yellow, and the pop-up info described them as "upcoming", as you can see in the picture.

The TFRs did not show when I first took off, but began appearing after about 15 minutes in flight. They appeared over a 15- 20 minute period, not all at once.

 

[matthewpiatt]

Today, I flew with SV 10.2, landed, installed SV 11, and flew again.

SV 10.2 showed the same problem I describe above; SV 11 added a few more of the fire TFRs, but was still missing three of them in northern Washington. Bizarrely, it showed the additional TFRs in yellow, and the pop-up info described them as "upcoming", as you can see in the picture.

The TFRs did not show when I first took off, but began appearing after about 15 minutes in flight. They appeared over a 15- 20 minute period, not all at once.

Eric:

Thank you very much for your post.

We noticed the TFR anomaly a few days prior to your initial post, and spent some time investigating it in depth. When we looked at our flight data we found that the dates and times for the recent fire TFRs in Eastern Washington were being transmitted by the ADS-B system in an unexpected format. We have implemented a solution internally and are in the process of testing it now. We will post a message to the forum and/or website as soon as possible after gaining confidence in the fix in order to update customers and let them know when they can expect a software update to correct the problem.

I would also like to address your other comments.

Yellow TFRs -- the yellow color is meant to convey that the TFR is upcoming, and not yet active. This means that the date and time data we receive for the TFR indicates that the restriction is in the future and has not yet occurred. Upcoming TFRs are drawn yellow, Active TFRs are drawn in red, and Stadium TFRs are drawn in orange.

Regarding the TFRs showing up after 15 minutes, and not all at once -- The ADS-B system is responsible for continuously uploading a large quantity of data that is continuously changing -- including METARs, TAFs, TFRs, NEXRAD data, traffic targets, and more. In order to save bandwidth and frequency spectrum, the FAA designed the ADS-B system to continuously upload data on a fairly fixed schedule, in small chunks at a time, and for only a limited area around your aircraft. TFRs don't change rapidly, so the update rate is slower. For the TFR products specifically, your ADS-B receiver should receive most of the TFR data for a few hundred nautical miles near your location within about 15 minutes of obtaining coverage. In contrast, NEXRAD data, which can change very rapidly, is uploaded every 2.5 minutes.

Hopefully all of this makes sense. Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

Regards,
Matthew Piatt
Systems Engineer
Dynon Avionics, Inc.

 

[RVDan]

I am adding my observation to this thread as it is related to the quote above.  I am based at KFDK, which has an ADS-B antenna on the field.  This is really handy as the ADS-B data can typically be updated on the ground.  The other day I departed the airport after about 15 minutes of the system operating on the ground.  The Camp David (P40 expanded) TFR was in place.  The SFRA and DC TFR's were all presented, as usual, but the Camp David TFR did not appear during the next 10 minutes on my outbound leg at which time it was behind me and I stop watching.  On the return flight an hour later, it did appear.  Does it really take that long to show ALL TFR's and not just some.  This could be deceptive as I was seeing TFR's, just not the one that would get me forced down.     I doubt this is a Dynon issue, I just think it might be an ADS-B quirk that could get one into trouble if relied on as a sole source of TFR data.

Comments Dynon?

 

[Garrett]

While on a local flight Tampa Bay last Saturday afternoon 9-20-2014 the Garmin 696 on XM was showing a 10 mile VIP TFR over Tampa while Dynon V.11 and WingX Pro showed no TFR's confusing. Any Ideas?

 

[Dynon]

To re-summarize Matthew's comments: We do have a bug here that prevents some TFRs from being shown some of the time. We're anticipating an 11.1 release shortly that will address this and a few other things.