What else is required to be IFR legal
- Thread starter PlaneDan
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The Dynon GPS does not meet the requirements for stand alone navigation under IFR rules as it is not certified to do so. A navigation receiver must be certified to act in this capacity. Dynon explains this in the instructions. The Dynon may act as a navigation display to show the output of a certified receiver. You may want to review the IFR navigation requirements of the Federal Air Regulations which are available online at the FAA website. You can start with faa.gov
Here is a link to FAR 91.205(d). http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=f470ae9f3f1654c16f93f5692a3dab03&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.3.7.3&idno=14
The Skyview provides most of the required equipment except (d)(2) "Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown". Skysailor is correct in his post.
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Remember that a GPS is not a requirement for IFR flight, but some navigation is. If you have a VOR/ILS receiver then that would be legal for IFR flight if all you flew were non-GPS approaches.
If you wish to shoot GPS approaches or use GPS en-route, then you need a certified GPS on board. In terms of asking what the SkyView GPS can do for you in IFR, you need to pretend like it's not in the plane.
And all of this assumes you are in the USA. We're not experts on other countries.
If you wish to shoot GPS approaches or use GPS en-route, then you need a certified GPS on board. In terms of asking what the SkyView GPS can do for you in IFR, you need to pretend like it's not in the plane.
And all of this assumes you are in the USA. We're not experts on other countries.
PlaneDan
I love flying!
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Thanks for the replies. I assure you that I am well aware of what the Dynon can and cannot do. I am also aware that I must have the required TSOd equipment for the flight. I also know that I am not required to use that equipment during the flight but that it must be operating. So, let's assume I am going to fly GPS direct and use only GPS approaches, is it possible for anyone to tell me what is the least expensive equipment that I can put in my plane to make it legal for such a flight.
If this is not a legal question, then, please ignore me.
Thanks,
If this is not a legal question, then, please ignore me.
Thanks,
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The cheapest GPS that is approach certified is the Garmin 400W, at about $6,000. This is the Garmin 430W with the COM and NAV removed.
dabear
New Member
I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the internet...
From what I know of the FAR/AIM you have to have certain navigation equipment and use that equipment. You CAN use other equipment (Dynon GPS attached to SV) to enhance your situational awareness. But you can't use it as the sole equipment in IFR/IMC.
I would look at the regs and determine what you need for the mission. As for gps enroute and GPS approaches, you'll need a TSO GPS box that is approved for both. It can send guidance to the SV or stand alone. However, the only thing I find that will do that is the garmin (GPS/NAV/Com 430W, etc.) or BendixKing similar gear. All for 5k plus used. :'(
From what I know of the FAR/AIM you have to have certain navigation equipment and use that equipment. You CAN use other equipment (Dynon GPS attached to SV) to enhance your situational awareness. But you can't use it as the sole equipment in IFR/IMC.
I would look at the regs and determine what you need for the mission. As for gps enroute and GPS approaches, you'll need a TSO GPS box that is approved for both. It can send guidance to the SV or stand alone. However, the only thing I find that will do that is the garmin (GPS/NAV/Com 430W, etc.) or BendixKing similar gear. All for 5k plus used. :'(
johnsteichen
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It is my understanding that if you are IFR and vor equipped with a handheld GPS you can navigate to a distant out of range VOR by requesting a vector and monitor your progress to that vor with your uncertified gps. The controller question sounds like " what heading will take you to that waypoint ?"
Comments welcome or course.
Comments welcome or course.
True. You are not using the GPS for navigation but for "situation awareness". The controller is doing the navigation for you and has assumed that responsibility in this situation. This is routine in some areas and impossible to get in other areas.
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Additionally, the question asked was "So, let's assume I am going to fly GPS direct and use only GPS approaches." In that case there is no alternate except a approach certified GPS on board. SkyView won't even give you vertical guidance, legal or not.
If all you want is enroute, you can use just a VOR receiver, or much older and cheaper GPS units.
If all you want is enroute, you can use just a VOR receiver, or much older and cheaper GPS units.
st8frm
I love flying!
Once in the soup, you will no longer being looking for the least expensive equipment to find your way home & safely down. My $.02. Good luck
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It matters what he really wants. The 300XL and KLN-90B are approved for non-precision approaches but not precision approaches. They will not give you vertical guidance down to the runway.
Again the cheapest way to be IFR "legal" is with a VOR receiver. This makes you legal for en-route IFR. After that it's totally up to what kind of procedures you want to fly.
Again the cheapest way to be IFR "legal" is with a VOR receiver. This makes you legal for en-route IFR. After that it's totally up to what kind of procedures you want to fly.
BMW_X6M
RV-9A O-320 Catto Prop. Dual HDX, ADSB GTN650
I have been following these discussions for several months because I have a VFR RV-9A airplane with dual SkyViews, and I want to start IFR training. I almost purchased a SL-30, then a Garmin 255A to do limited VOR/ILS only, but finally had to swallow the big pill and go with the new Garmin GTN-650. I could have went with a used 430W but I felt the new box had nice features, and old electronics are just that, old.
Pilots, CFII's, and controllers I talked to all said that GPS is the future, and if I was taking training, I should be training for all the possible approaches. Old school pilots swear by VOR and ILS, but these systems may not be maintained except at the largest airports in the future. With GPS the smaller airports have usable approaches now with precision vertical guidance.
The saddest part of all of this right now is there is no competition for Garmin in this category, and they are able to charge about double what these radio's should cost. I keep hoping that Avidyne will get their units to market, and will offer some competition to Garmin. Also, hopefully the FAA will modify its regulations to allow certified GPS/WAAS sensors along with experimental avionics to access these approaches.
The used 430W sell on Ebay almost immediately for good money because so many people are looking for a lower cost for this capability. What I fear is that Garmin will pull support of these older units in order to drive sales of its new ones.
Pilots, CFII's, and controllers I talked to all said that GPS is the future, and if I was taking training, I should be training for all the possible approaches. Old school pilots swear by VOR and ILS, but these systems may not be maintained except at the largest airports in the future. With GPS the smaller airports have usable approaches now with precision vertical guidance.
The saddest part of all of this right now is there is no competition for Garmin in this category, and they are able to charge about double what these radio's should cost. I keep hoping that Avidyne will get their units to market, and will offer some competition to Garmin. Also, hopefully the FAA will modify its regulations to allow certified GPS/WAAS sensors along with experimental avionics to access these approaches.
The used 430W sell on Ebay almost immediately for good money because so many people are looking for a lower cost for this capability. What I fear is that Garmin will pull support of these older units in order to drive sales of its new ones.
jakej
Well-Known Member
I fully agree, the sooner someone else starts the revolution the better, then I'm done with Garmin - never liked those sorts of monopolies anyway.
Actually the regs say:
(2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.
So if I want to fly from Palm Beach, FL to Boca Raton, FL and plan on using Radar Vectors, I do NOT need a VOR or GPS. Since I will be using the PBI Radar for navigation, all I need is a two way radio.
(2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.
So if I want to fly from Palm Beach, FL to Boca Raton, FL and plan on using Radar Vectors, I do NOT need a VOR or GPS. Since I will be using the PBI Radar for navigation, all I need is a two way radio.
No PAR approaches anymore so you don't. ATC brings you down in altitude and you better break out of the soup before you reach the MVA so you can approach visually. Just pray you break out somewhere before you run out of fuel. Like I said, it is legal but not smart.