What's needed for IFR training

[YME]

Currently building RV-12iS E-LSA. Going to use the Dynon package Van's offers with 2 screens. After certification what additional equipment do I need to add so I can use it for my IFR training. I have no intention of going into or flying IMC but still want the challenge of learning IFR.

Thank you

 

[Marc_J._Zeitlin]

For enroute navigation under IFR, you don't need anything else. Dead Reckoning and Pilotage, with a handheld GPS as a backup, are perfectly legal for enroute.

If you don't mind using old technology, a Val Avionics NAV-2000:

NAV 2000

Description: The new VAL Avionics NAV 2000 is the perfect complement to the COM 2000. Created from the same durable design, the NAV 2000 is built to interface with most NAV indicators, past and...

www.valavionics.com

is the cheapest way to make your plane legal for IFR approaches. For $1800, you can do VOR, LOC and ILS approaches and take your practical test in your airplane.

If you want to do GPS approaches instead, the cheapest instrument is the Garmin GPS-175, with which you can do any of the precision and non-precision GPS approaches, so is also legal for the practical test (and all practice). But it'll run you about $4500 or more.

 

[YME]

Marc,

Thanks for the info. Are there any additional cables that would have to be run for any type of antennas needed? If so, it would be easier now as I proceed with the build.

 

[Marc_J._Zeitlin]

Marc,

Thanks for the info. Are there any additional cables that would have to be run for any type of antennas needed? If so, it would be easier now as I proceed with the build.

You would need a VOR antenna (and maybe GS, but usually GS can come from the VOR with a splitter) for the NAV-2000, and you'd need a place for the GPS antenna for the GPS-175. You can certainly run the cables for either/both but not install the antennae, if you can pick a good spot for them and leave the mounting structure ready.

 

[airguy]

Caution on the cable splitter for the glideslope - the device you want to use there is actually a DIPLEXER, not a generic splitter. It's a band-pass filter combined with a splitter that increases the signal-to-noise ratio of each output stream for better long-range reception.

 

[YME]

Caution on the cable splitter for the glideslope - the device you want to use there is actually a DIPLEXER, not a generic splitter. It's a band-pass filter combined with a splitter that increases the signal-to-noise ratio of each output stream for better long-range reception.

Airguy,

Thanks for the info and will mark this in my book.

You would need a VOR antenna (and maybe GS, but usually GS can come from the VOR with a splitter) for the NAV-2000, and you'd need a place for the GPS antenna for the GPS-175. You can certainly run the cables for either/both but not install the antennae, if you can pick a good spot for them and leave the mounting structure ready.

Things to think about. Just wondering how the NAV-2000 would fit in the Rv-12iS but thank you for the info.

 

[Carl_Froehlich]

The more expensive but more capability approach is to install a GPS-175. With that you can be legal if you ever do want to fly IFR.

 

[Marc_J._Zeitlin]

The more expensive but more capability approach is to install a GPS-175. With that you can be legal if you ever do want to fly IFR.

Didn't I say exactly that in post #2?

 

[YME]

Didn't I say exactly that in post #2?

Thanks to everyone's input. I think I am going with the GPS-175, after certification.

 

[ve0kog]

If you have a single screen and single ADAHARs may also check if you need a backup AI and a magnetic heading indicators (e.g. a G5) and possibly a heated pitot. the LSA is a bit tricky with the IFR rules - i think you can file IFR but must stay out of IMC even with the right equipment. never know when the rules might change

 

[swatson999]

If you have a single screen and single ADAHARs may also check if you need a backup AI and a magnetic heading indicators (e.g. a G5) and possibly a heated pitot. the LSA is a bit tricky with the IFR rules - i think you can file IFR but must stay out of IMC even with the right equipment. never know when the rules might change

Assuming he's in the US, why would he need a backup AI and mag?

 

[ve0kog]

Assuming he's in the US, why would he need a backup AI and mag?

you are right, probably not legally required. May be i was thinking of how to practice a partial panel with just the dynon screen May be switching to a six pack mode and some sticky notes over instruments would work?

 

[swatson999]

It's not "probably not legally required". It's not legally required.

It may be a good *idea* to have a backup PFD (I do ), but you certainly can fly IFR with just a single one.

Switching to 6-pack display might be the best option, although if you lost your ADAHRS in the real world, seems like that would be useless, as well...

 

[pacecapt]

You are also going to need the Dynon SV-ARINC-429 module to connect a non-Dynon product to the system.

 

[YME]

You are also going to need the Dynon SV-ARINC-429 module to connect a non-Dynon product to the system.

This is good info, as I know nothing about the glass avionics and what is needed. So, Van's offers the Garmin G3X Touch package which includes GTR 200B (includes ADSB In/Out) an extra screen, GSA 28 (autopilot servo), and GMC 507 (auto pilot knob module) for $33,060. I know previous posts mention the GPS-175 navigator ($5000-6000). Is there anything else? Remember, I just want to try and get my IFR rating and as previously stated no intentions of going IMC.

 

[pacecapt]

This is good info, as I know nothing about the glass avionics and what is needed. So, Van's offers the Garmin G3X Touch package which includes GTR 200B (includes ADSB In/Out) an extra screen, GSA 28 (autopilot servo), and GMC 507 (auto pilot knob module) for $33,060. I know previous posts mention the GPS-175 navigator ($5000-6000). Is there anything else? Remember, I just want to try and get my IFR rating and as previously stated no intentions of going IMC.

I don't know anything about Garmin (other than it is expensive and they don't like to play with others). I do have about 700 hours on my non-IFR Dynon HDX system and I think it is good...not perfect. As you have clearly discovered, Dynon does not make an certified IFR navigator so in order to use the Dynon in an IFR role you will need to purchase a Garmin or Avidyne IFR Navigator (they are both are expensive with the Garmin 175 being the less costly) but the 175 is only an RNAV or GPS navigator. You could install a GNS 430W and it would have both GPS and Nav/Comm radios. Bottom line is there are a couple of options, but a bigger problem will probably be finding someone to instruct in your RV and then the bigger issue is finding a DPE to test you in it. Most people I know train and test in a certified airplane then outfit their experimental with a good IFR GPS and fly it. Best of luck.

 

[CanardMulti]

Thoughts re pursuing an IFR rating:

- Highly encouraged. Many long time pilots agree it has the potential to make you a better, more precise pilot.

- Many folks do not realize that the USA is one of the few countries that allows night VFR flight. There are good reasons others don't. Having IFR skills to fall back on might just save your bacon some moonless night.

- Doing it with the 'minimum required' equipment IMHO falls into that gray-ish area of what is legal vs. what is smart. It will put you at a disadvantage when (not if) you grow more experienced and see the value of the increased utility your plane would have in benign IFR situations.

- You don't need to go to the expense and complexity of building a mini-airliner.

- That said, strictly just one guy's opinion but the minimum package to responsibly fly IFR w/ one Skyview screen (with back up battery) would include first and foremost the secondary ADAHRS. To that add some form of standby horizon - I like the G5 but there are lots of newer choices these days - for that once in a lifetime event when your Skyview screen goes dark in flight. Inside a cloud. At night.

- Balance of suggested avionics would be 2 VHF comms, at least one VHF NAV (to allow VOR and ILS when GPS system goes down for any number of reasons), and at least one IFR legal GPS navigator to allow LPV approaches. Any IFR navigator will need the ARINC 429 box to fully communicate with Skyview. There are lots of ways to build the package.

- If cost is a factor, the suggestion to lay in antenna cables during the build for anticipated expansion is solid. Much, much easier now than to retrofit. Also, make whatever serves as your avionics bay easily accessible and keep the wire bundles neat, well routed, and carefully supported.

- Many pilots won't admit to enjoying playing with paper dolls. In this case, the paper dolls are 100% scale replicas of the various avionics on your wish list for your panel. Moving them around and playing with various layouts on a 100% scale drawing of your panel will provide a truly creative experience as you think things through.

Enjoy the ride-

Ken