ADAHRS Fail

[swatson999]

The original (first ) module worked faultlessly for about 130 hrs.
Second, was the loan module - for about 5 hrs or so (would have to to check log) also without fault.
The new, as stated , 4 hrs.

Have reported problem to local agents - they have asked for more information.

Given that many others have had theirs work flawlessly for thousands of hours, and you've had two fail in very short order, the problem sounds like something other than the ADAHRS. Do you have a schematic for the plane? Have you examined all the wiring in the EFIS/EMS/ADAHRS system to look for issues, proper terminations, pinouts, etc.

Basically, it's hard for people to help you without a lot more information. You swapped out parts, and the problem didn't go away, so the problem is probably not the parts (although they're a casualty of the underlying issue).

For example, on the first unit, you say "failed". But what aspect of it failed, how? A big red X on the screen, or some particular function in particular? On the second unit, you say the mag heading froze...we're assuming you don't have a remote magnetometer, but we don't know that.

The more data you can provide, the better help you'll get here.

 

[SkippyDiesel]

HiSwatson99,

The fail, in both the original & new replacement is, a red cross with the words ADAHRS Internal Fail.
As far as I am concerned its a complete (no systems showing) failure of the ADAHRS module.
The connecting cable has been checked for continuity - all good.
Dynon did not inform me or the local agent, of why the original ADAHRS failed - just supplied a brand new module.
The new ADAHRS was supplied without any update information, which was required to get the module to "talk" to the SkyView SE SV/D600. Once update done the unit worked perfectly for 4 Hobbs hours.
"The SkyView Primary ADAHRS Module uses MEMS sensor technology to generate inertial, magnetic, and Pitot/Static pressure data. This data is used by SkyView to calculate and display the following functions:

• Artificial Horizon/Synthetic Vision display,
• Gyro-Stabilized Heading indicator,
• Indicated and True Airspeed indicators,
• Altitude, and Vertical Speed indicators,
• Slip/Skid, Turn Rate,
• Angle of Attack indicators,
• Flight Path Marker,
• Winds Aloft speed and direction indicators."

 

[swatson999]

HiSwatson99,

The fail, in both the original & new replacement is, a red cross with the words ADAHRS Internal Fail.
As far as I am concerned its a complete (no systems showing) failure of the ADAHRS module.
The connecting cable has been checked for continuity - all good.
Dynon did not inform me or the local agent, of why the original ADAHRS failed - just supplied a brand new module.
The new ADAHRS was supplied without any update information, which was required to get the module to "talk" to the SkyView SE SV/D600. Once update done the unit worked perfectly for 4 Hobbs hours.
"The SkyView Primary ADAHRS Module uses MEMS sensor technology to generate inertial, magnetic, and Pitot/Static pressure data. This data is used by SkyView to calculate and display the following functions:

• Artificial Horizon/Synthetic Vision display,
• Gyro-Stabilized Heading indicator,
• Indicated and True Airspeed indicators,
• Altitude, and Vertical Speed indicators,
• Slip/Skid, Turn Rate,
• Angle of Attack indicators,
• Flight Path Marker,
• Winds Aloft speed and direction indicators."

I know what an ADAHRS does. We're trying to help you figure out why you, and only you apparently, have had two separate failures of ADAHRS units, both in a very short time.

There is something about your particular setup that must be causing this...electrical, environmental, or otherwise. Where is the unit mounted? How is it mounted? What about the cable? How long? Is there anyplace it could be chafed? Is it properly supported? What kind of wire was used?

The fact that two different units failed should be pointing you to some other cause...where else have you looked and what have you considered?

Also, when the unit or units failed, did you immediately grab a diagnostic file for Dynon? Do you have EMS data for the flights during which the unit failed, or if on the ground, the flight immediately prior, which you can share with us? There might be some indication in one of the data fields there...

BTW, getting information from you seems to be like pulling teeth. If you want help, you need to be more forthcoming, instead of continuing to just post your problem with little info and then sitting back expecting the forum to run your diagnostics for you.

 

[SkippyDiesel]

I appreciate your help Swatson99 and feel that I have been responding appropriately to your questions as I understand them;

"On the second unit, you say the mag heading froze...we're assuming you don't have a remote magnetometer, but we don't know that."
I don't think I said this as part of my recent ADAHRS failure

Post No 9 -New ADAHRS now up & working, thanks to a download doing its electronic compatibility magic

Where & how is the modul mounted?
To the right (starboard) of centre, about .5m behind passenger head. Fitted to a custom made aluminium bracket using brass screws/nuts

Cables?:
Supplied by Dynon, in good condition, supported over its entire length. Dont know what wires Dynon used.
The installed cable runs from the instrument panel around the cockpit seating area to the ADAHRS about .5 m behind. At a guess, it's 2 m long.
On first module failure; Tested for continuity - all good.
As part of my diagnostic efforts, I substituted a Dynon supplied .5m cable, holding removed module in hand, ADAHRS did not work.
Conclusion - problem in module not cable.

"...........did you immediately grab a diagnostic file for Dynon? Do you have EMS data for the flights during which the unit failed, or if on the ground,"
No to the diagnostic - Dynon have requested this and will supply within next few days.
Both original and new modules failed at preflight installation start up on the ground (last flight between 24 hrs and a week)

"BTW, getting information from you seems to be like pulling teeth. If you want help, you need to be more forthcoming, instead of continuing to just post your problem with little info and then sitting back expecting the forum to run your diagnostics for you."
I apologise if I seem to expect too much - I am on several Forums (x6), in all cases the more talented/experienced help, the less so, without reserve or criticism.
I have only recently "graduated" from "steam gauges" to electronic, do not claim any knowledge beyond the ability to use the system, as I would my old gauges.
I believe I have answered every question, to the best of my ability, when asked.

 

[SkippyDiesel]

This is the information Dynon have asked for - hope it helps

 

[swatson999]

I appreciate your help Swatson99 and feel that I have been responding appropriately to your questions as I understand them;

"On the second unit, you say the mag heading froze...we're assuming you don't have a remote magnetometer, but we don't know that."
I don't think I said this as part of my recent ADAHRS failure

Post No 9 -New ADAHRS now up & working, thanks to a download doing its electronic compatibility magic

Where & how is the modul mounted?
To the right (starboard) of centre, about .5m behind passenger head. Fitted to a custom made aluminium bracket using brass screws/nuts

Cables?:
Supplied by Dynon, in good condition, supported over its entire length. Dont know what wires Dynon used.
The installed cable runs from the instrument panel around the cockpit seating area to the ADAHRS about .5 m behind. At a guess, it's 2 m long.
On first module failure; Tested for continuity - all good.
As part of my diagnostic efforts, I substituted a Dynon supplied .5m cable, holding removed module in hand, ADAHRS did not work.
Conclusion - problem in module not cable.

"...........did you immediately grab a diagnostic file for Dynon? Do you have EMS data for the flights during which the unit failed, or if on the ground,"
No to the diagnostic - Dynon have requested this and will supply within next few days.
Both original and new modules failed at preflight installation start up on the ground (last flight between 24 hrs and a week)

"BTW, getting information from you seems to be like pulling teeth. If you want help, you need to be more forthcoming, instead of continuing to just post your problem with little info and then sitting back expecting the forum to run your diagnostics for you."
I apologise if I seem to expect too much - I am on several Forums (x6), in all cases the more talented/experienced help, the less so, without reserve or criticism.
I have only recently "graduated" from "steam gauges" to electronic, do not claim any knowledge beyond the ability to use the system, as I would my old gauges.
I believe I have answered every question, to the best of my ability, when asked.

OK...since it's unlikely that you were the unluckiest ADAHRS user in the Dynon community and got two bad units, and if you're sure the wiring is sound (including checking the pins for proper seating...sometimes a Dsub pin will appear correctly seated but it's not, and can get pushed back, e.g., and not make solid contact), let's think about other possibilities than the ADAHRS.

First off, *always* grab a diagnostic file immediately after a failure of any kind, AND do an immediate download of the regular log data (so that the higher-rate data file doesn't get overwritten as it only holds 30 minutes or so of high-rate data).

In troubleshooting terms, you should be looking for a common failure mode. Instead of 2 separate failures of boxes which were presumably manufactured perhaps years apart, maybe the issue is with what they're connected *to*: the EFIS. If that's the case, then only Dynon would be able to figure that out, with the diagnostic file.

Short of that...we're back to the usual culprits: environmental or installation issues. Only you can find those, if that's the case.

Or...replace it again and see what happens. Best of luck! Let us know how it goes.

 

[swatson999]

Without any warning, my ADAHRS -200 failed, after just 132 hrs in service.
Local Dynon agent unable to fix. Supplied loan module, which worked perfectly.
"Old" unit sent to USA for assessment / repair.
No explanation on old module failure.
New (not rebuild) replacement (charged full price, as out of calendar warranty) supplied. Frozen compass, would not accept callibration.
US & local Dynon techs unable to come up with a remedy.
Removed new unit, replaced with loan modul - all good for now.
Anyone else had an ADAHRS-200 module failure?

I apologise if I seem to expect too much - I am on several Forums (x6), in all cases the more talented/experienced help, the less so, without reserve or criticism.

It's not that you're expecting too much...it's that we're asking you to provide as much info as you can. Your first post can be summarized as this:
My first ADAHRS failed.
A loaner worked.
My new second ADAHRS failed with a frozen compass.
The loaner still works.

That is a pretty sparse dataset for anyone to provide much help in an internet forum without asking for much more info, as we've done.

So don't take it personally, we're here to help, but you have to give us all the info you can for us to do so.

 

[swatson999]

HiSwatson99,

The fail, in both the original & new replacement is, a red cross with the words ADAHRS Internal Fail.

I thought you said the second new unit had a failure of the mag compass, not the red X and the indication of multiple sensor failures?

 

[SkippyDiesel]

Your abbreviated sequence of ADAHRS events is a tad too short;

Original (first) module worked perfectly for aproximately 130 hrs
Failed without warning, on ground, on pre engine start check.
Loan module worked perfectly for about 5 hrs - Replaced, still working, when new module arrived
New replacement module had initial problems (frozen compass) - Fixed by belated download
New module worked faultlessly for about 4 hrs
New module failed on ground, on pre engine start check.
Dynon sending a loaner module, yet to arrive
Present day/situation

Note:
First module failure , turned whole electrical system off several times - red cross & failure message appeared each time
Second module failure, as above, however each time normal screen appears but only remains for about 30 seconds before reverting to red cross & failure message.

 

[swatson999]

Your abbreviated sequence of ADAHRS events is a tad too short;

Original (first) module worked perfectly for aproximately 130 hrs
Failed without warning, on ground, on pre engine start check.
Loan module worked perfectly for about 5 hrs - Replaced, still working, when new module arrived
New replacement module had initial problems (frozen compass) - Fixed by belated download
New module worked faultlessly for about 4 hrs
New module failed on ground, on pre engine start check.
Dynon sending a loaner module, yet to arrive
Present day/situation

Note:
First module failure , turned whole electrical system off several times - red cross & failure message appeared each time
Second module failure, as above, however each time normal screen appears but only remains for about 30 seconds before reverting to red cross & failure message.

You must have missed my point, where I said

Your first post can be summarized as this

 

[SkippyDiesel]

New ADAHRS module installed & compass ground/air callibration done (127%)
Dynon does not seem intersted, at this time, to get the last module back???
Also calibrated A of A - What % are people using for initial warning?

 

[SkippyDiesel]

ADAHRS failed again! - same symptoms as last unit, that is;
Great days flying, all systems operating as expected.
Go back next day, pre engine start, Dyone on normally, for about 30 seconds, before reverting to red cross ADAHRS Internal Fail.

This time I tried a "forced load" - system back up & running normally.

 

[swatson999]

So this time, did you immediatley get a diagnostic file AND download the logfiles?

1 failed ADAHRS is bad luck. 2 failures is extremely unlikely to be the fault of the ADAHRS. The odds against getting 3 bad ADAHRS units is astronomically high.

The fault is somewhere else...

 

[SkippyDiesel]

Sorry mate - Dynon have asked for other information - I have to disconnect the ADAHRS, test pin 2 & 7, report my findings

 

[swatson999]

So you didn't take the simple step of downloading the diagnostic file and the logfiles, in the event Dynon asked for them, nor so you could look at them yourself.

What do you mean "test pin 2 & 7"? On the cable? For what? On the ADAHRS box? How?

This is what I mean by "pulling teeth" from you to get information. You post basically "waaaaah another one failed" with virtually NO information, fail to take steps to identify the source of the problem, and then expect...what, exactly?

Let me say this again...NOBODY has 3 ADAHRS fail because of failures in the ADAHRS unit. Almost nobody has had even ONE fail. *The cause of your failures is somewhere ELSE in the system*. You have an intermittent short in a wire, or FOD in a connector, or an environmental problem, or something. You can keep plugging in new ADAHRS boxes until the cows come home, and your *system* is going to keep breaking them.

Either that, or you're just trolling here, as some have suspected...

 

[SkippyDiesel]

I can understand your frustration at this ignorant Cluts, not following through on your suggestion & for that I am sorry.
Your logic is impeccable however you are dealing with an electronic neophyte - you want info on a host of other practical skills knowledge, I am your man but not electronics.
Your unpleasant tone/language, is unwarranted, not constructive and I hope not exhibited in your real world. It is you who is displaying "troll" like behavior.
You are somewhere in the either. I am in my real world, where I can only respond to my local Dynon agent. The request for a test on the ADAHRS pins 2 & 7 is from them - I have not questioned their logic, will do my best to comply & hope that they can solve the mystery for me.
It is highly unlikely that I would understand the diagnostic file, so until Dynon ask for it will remain where its is.
Dynon has not asked for the diagnostic file.

 

[swatson999]

You're right, you can't understand the diagnostic file. It's in binary, and it's for *Dynon* to parse through if you ever get one and send it to them. The reason you want to get it straight away is because it gets overwritten and only has the last hour IIRC of data.

You said you checked the cables before. Please tell us how you did that, precisely. Pins 2 and 7 are power and ground (this is in the Installation Manual, btw).

The logfiles, however, are human readable and can be imported into Excel. Have you examined them?

Everybody was a neophyte at something until they took the time to learn it.

And you still haven't answered my question:

What do you mean "test pin 2 & 7"? On the cable? For what? On the ADAHRS box? How?

 

[SkippyDiesel]

No I haven't downloaded any files since completing test flying

This is the instruction from Dynon;

"Continue to monitor. I asked previously about autopilot which you don’t have. But could you measure the voltages regardless. I’ve included the instructions
When I receive your old one I’ll plug it into our test screen and see if it falls over.
“unplug the existing ADAHRS and power up the aircraft. Then measure with a multimeter between pins 2 & 7 and report back the voltage (to the tenths)”

It seems to me that they are asking for the voltage being delivered on the ADAHRS end of the cable, + power (7) supply to - ground (2) pins. Further I guess this will indicate quality of connection, ground in particular but also positive

 

[swatson999]

I don't understand your reticence to download the files. The diagnostic file in particular is the ONLY visibility into your system that Dynon has short of sending it back to them.

This is basic troubleshooting technique, in any industry: preserve all data immediately after an event.

 

[swatson999]

No I haven't downloaded any files since completing test flying

This is the instruction from Dynon;

"Continue to monitor. I asked previously about autopilot which you don’t have. But could you measure the voltages regardless. I’ve included the instructions
When I receive your old one I’ll plug it into our test screen and see if it falls over.
“unplug the existing ADAHRS and power up the aircraft. Then measure with a multimeter between pins 2 & 7 and report back the voltage (to the tenths)”

It seems to me that they are asking for the voltage being delivered on the ADAHRS end of the cable, + power (7) supply to - ground (2) pins. Further I guess this will indicate quality of connection, ground in particular but also positive

You could easily have done this earlier, when checking your wiring harness, and should have. Ensuring a box has power is pretty basic troubleshooting. The equivalent of making sure the lamp is plugged in before going off and rewiring the bulb socket.