ADS-B FAA Compliance Report

[swatson999]

Fair enough...I do recall they upped the SIL/SDA from, what was it? 0/0 or something...to 1/1 or whatever, so 250-equipped units would continue to get traffic. So there's that.

But it won't get you a rebate. And, unless something has changed, Dynon Support earlier posted something that indicated that aircraft with *existing* XPDRs were not eligible, anyway. It has to be a totally new installation, and it has to meet the 2020 mandate, to get the free money.

 

[dynonsupport]

Just curious...why bother?  The 250 doesn't get you sufficient SIL/SDA levels, and you'll just be alerting the FAA that you're flying around sending ADS-B signals out with too low of a level (IIRC, the report may include some notice to stop broadcasting ADS-B until you have a compliant system)...

There is no issue with the 250 at all. It is perfectly legal, and the FAA is aware of it. Transmitting a SIL of 1 is allowed by all the rules.

The only thing not allowed is entering airspace defined in 91.225 after Jan 1, 2020. Even after 2020 the 250 is legal as long as you avoid that airspace.

There's even a TSO for SIL=1 GPS's (TSO-C199) meant to give traffic awareness without being used for separation (exactly what the 250 does).

The only time the FAA has ever tried to stop someone from transmitting is when it's transmitting the wrong SIL/SDA, trying to claim compliance to a higher standard than the engineering supports. As long as the SIL/SDA is correct for the GPS position sensor, the FAA doesn't care if it's 0,1,2, or 3.

 

[dynonsupport]

The rebate is not available on the SV-GPS-2020. The rebate requires TSO'd devices. It can be installed by anyone however.

Even without that, the rebate doesn't work for retrofit aircraft. The rebate requires that your airplane have never transmitted V2 ADS-B OUT, even if that signal was not 2020 compliant. The Dynon transponder is always sending out V2 ADS-B so if you've flown with it before, you're not eligible.

So the only real way to end up with the rebate is if you are adding the Dynon transponder to a plane and hooking it to a TSO'd GPS (IFR Navigator).

 

[swatson999]

Just curious...why bother?  The 250 doesn't get you sufficient SIL/SDA levels, and you'll just be alerting the FAA that you're flying around sending ADS-B signals out with too low of a level (IIRC, the report may include some notice to stop broadcasting ADS-B until you have a compliant system)...

There is no issue with the 250 at all. It is perfectly legal, and the FAA is aware of it. Transmitting a SIL of 1 is allowed by all the rules.

The only thing not allowed is entering airspace defined in 91.225 after Jan 1, 2020. Even after 2020 the 250 is legal as long as you avoid that airspace.

There's even a TSO for SIL=1 GPS's (TSO-C199) meant to give traffic awareness without being used for separation (exactly what the 250 does).

The only time the FAA has ever tried to stop someone from transmitting is when it's transmitting the wrong SIL/SDA, trying to claim compliance to a higher standard than the engineering supports. As long as the SIL/SDA is correct for the GPS position sensor, the FAA doesn't care if it's 0,1,2, or 3.

Ah, thanks for the correction...I think my original (non-2020-compliant) report was from a ways back, when they first started doing it, and the header on the thing said "Note: Items high-lighted in red within this report indicate the ADS-B Out system installed on this aircraft failed to meet the corresponding performance requirement as specified in § 91.227. The owner/operator must take action to correct the ADS-B system deficiency identified." But that was quite a while ago, and definitely before Dynon updated the firmware and software to slightly higher SIL/SDA anyway.

I do love the 2020 antenna + system...500 bucks and 2020-compliant with a drop-in replacement? Best half-an-aviation-buck I spent on the plane!

Thanks for correcting the info, Dynon...

 

[Raymo]

Steve,

You are correct. The equipment must be TSO'd and (IIRC) be installed by a certified shop, which means you'll spend way more than that $500 rebate to meet the requirements.

Well, "way more" is relative, I guess.  Upgrading from the 250 GPS to a 2020 is $590, so after the rebate, it's $90.  That seems pretty inexpensive to me.

That's assuming you have a SV (or else, why would you be on this forum? ), and the Dynon (TT) XPDR, of course.

ETA:  I don't believe it has to installed by a certified shop, though, but I expect Dynon Support will weigh in here shortly...

I think the requirement for a certified shop only applies to certified (or is it certificated?) aircraft.

Like you said, if you already have Dynon equipment, going with the Trig 22 and GPS-2020 is a logical choice but won't get you the rebate.

 

[swatson999]

Like you said, if you already have Dynon equipment, going with the Trig 22 and GPS-2020 is a logical choice but won't get you the rebate.

Yeah, and it sucks. I can *sort* of see why they wouldn't offer a rebate for things that you may have bought years ago, but why cut out E-ABs? Is it because somebody who wrote the program rules at HQ is unaware of the concept?

 

[dynonsupport]

I think my original (non-2020-compliant) report was from a ways back, when they first started doing it, and the header on the thing said "Note: Items high-lighted in red within this report indicate the ADS-B Out system installed on this aircraft failed to meet the corresponding performance requirement as specified in § 91.227. The owner/operator must take action to correct the ADS-B system deficiency identified." 

That's because the report is a 91.227 compliance report. It's meant to tell you if you are 2020 compliant, so it highlights things which make you non-compliant. That doesn't mean it's illegal if you aren't compliant, just that you can't fly into 91.225 airspaces (which don't exist until 2020). But the report assumes that's why you requested it.

 

[cbennet12]

The rebate is not available on the SV-GPS-2020. The rebate requires TSO'd devices. It can be installed by anyone however.

Even without that, the rebate doesn't work for retrofit aircraft. The rebate requires that your airplane have never transmitted V2 ADS-B OUT, even if that signal was not 2020 compliant. The Dynon transponder is always sending out V2 ADS-B so if you've flown with it before, you're not eligible.

So the only real way to end up with the rebate is if you are adding the Dynon transponder to a plane and hooking it to a TSO'd GPS (IFR Navigator).

The rebate is not available on the SV-GPS-2020. The rebate requires TSO'd devices. It can be installed by anyone however.


Even without that, the rebate doesn't work for retrofit aircraft. The rebate requires that your airplane have never transmitted V2 ADS-B OUT, even if that signal was not 2020 compliant. The Dynon transponder is always sending out V2 ADS-B so if you've flown with it before, you're not eligible.

So the only real way to end up with the rebate is if you are adding the Dynon transponder to a plane and hooking it to a TSO'd GPS (IFR Navigator).

So a newly installed SV-261 with a GPS-2020 will not qualify for the rebate?

I just flew with the newly installed SV-261 and a GPS-250 and finally obtained the report and my NIC was 6 and the SDA/SIL was 1 (expected, right?) so the report was a FAIL from the rebate standpoint. Sounds like there is no point in popping in the 2020 now to try and qualify for the rebate based on the transponder as it requires a $10k GPS?

Bummer. But the bottom line is if the rebate never existed this is still the path I would have followed!

Thanks to all for chipping in with their thoughts.

Craig

 

[dynonsupport]

Craig,
Correct. The SV-GPS-2020 is never eligible for the rebate, and if it was, then flying with the 250 first would have disqualified you.