Altimeter/transponder recertification procedure

Jonas

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Feb 24, 2010
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I read the instructions out loud (Turn off skyview for each static pressure increase/decrease) to the avionics guy I hired to check my altimeter and transponder accuracy. I watched him go at it for about 20 minutes shutting off the screen, changing pressure, turning on the screen, waiting for reboot, and recording the altitude... over and over again at each required altitude. I got bored and left him to do his thing, when I got back about an hour later he had a guilty look on his face and both ADHARS were failed.

The alarm the screens were getting after 10 seconds of being booted up was "dynon Adahrs fail internal error: multiple sensors"

At this point the plane was not flyable, and the avionics guy spent another 2 hours charging me for his time until I finally asked him to stop.

Turns out he had done the procedure on someone else's plane with skyview installed, and didn't bother turning the screens off each time, and he said it worked fine THAT TIME. When I left him alone, he started to change pressures without shutting down the skyview.

I have since got it going again, after about 40 reboots the Adhars stopped shutting down on the fail alert.

Apparently when testing, the reason you need to shut off the screen each pressure change is because of the way the skyview interacts and updates with gps speed, airspeed, pitot pressure, AOA pressure, static pressure, compas reading.... if there is a significant change in one parameter without the other, it assumes the adahrs has failed.

My Question to Dynon;

When able, can you please program in a button somewhere called "static system test" that shuts down all of the possible program problems if the pressure increases dramatically when the plane is not physically in motion?

This would dramatically decrease the test length and billable hours that the avionics guy charges (if he follows the instructions) and would stop this kind of error from happening.


Anyone else out there see this as somewhat of a priority?
 

gtae07

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Dec 10, 2013
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At this point the plane was not flyable, and the avionics guy spent another 2 hours charging me for his time until I finally asked him to stop.

Maybe things work different in the light airplane avionics world, but he shouldn't be charging you for the time he spent trying to fix a problem that he caused by not following procedures.
 

Carl_Froehlich

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Aug 22, 2007
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I need to look a back at the previous install manual instructions as reading page 5-17 and 5-18 now I see this is not how my pitot/static cert was done the last two times.

The last time the tech just changed input pressure as needed, no shutdown and start up of the system. He commented how easy the SkyView cert was compared to other system. I guess the next one will be harder.

Dynon - do we really need to shut the display off at each pressure change or follow standard proceedures to slowly change the pressure?

Carl
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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Mar 23, 2005
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Carl:

The various sensors in the ADAHRS "cross calibrate" each other. If the Pitot / Static sensors see an change in pressure, without a corresponding input from the inertial sensors, SkyView will adjust its attitude to "make sense" of the competing inputs. In some cases, if you don't turn off the system as the pitot and static inputs change, you'll end up with a PFD that could an incorrect attitude for a time until it has realigned itself in flight. If you (are willing to) fly with it in that condition, it will correct itself as the sensors gradually cross calibrate each other (with valid inputs).

I need to look a back at the previous install manual instructions as reading page 5-17 and 5-18 now I see this is not how my pitot/static cert was done the last two times.

The last time the tech just changed input pressure as needed, no shutdown and start up of the system.  He commented how easy the SkyView cert was compared to other system.  I guess the next one will be harder.

Dynon - do we really need to shut the display off at each pressure change or follow standard proceedures to slowly change the pressure?

Carl

Much of the time you can "get away with it" just doing the procedure without the shut downs. But occasionally one won't predicting which ADAHRS will and which won't isn't trivial, and the explanation can be a bit technical for some. So we erred on the side of giving a conservative procedure. If your inertial system was adversely affected, you'd likely see turn rate on the ground when you're still and/or an incorrect attitude on the ground. And even when that happens, once you fly, it will self correct usually within minutes. So in a nutshell, even if you've not followed the procedure in the past, if your attitude indicator and turn rate are behaving properly, no need to worry.
 

Carl_Froehlich

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Shoot fire. I was hoping for an answer other than the one I knew I would get.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll follow the procedure for the next one coming due in April.

Carl
 

Jonas

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Feb 24, 2010
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A simple button that shuts down the "Cross calibrating" during the testing would have saved me approximately $1000, Maybe more. The Avionics guy would have spent less time doing that specific task, and I would have mad it home before the weather turned on me while I was dealing with the dual ADHARS fail situation before I could make it home. I'm still holed up in a hotel 3 days later. (Not everyone has an avionics shop at their home airport.)

I'm not blaming anyone on the weather, that's part of flying. Just giving the guys in the dynon lab a real world experience as to why it would be nice to add this little feature.

P.S. I really appreciate the new glide ring, 912is throttle and eco mode widgets, checklist...
 

n456ts

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Jan 24, 2015
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A simple button that shuts down the "Cross calibrating" during the testing would have saved me approximately $1000,  Maybe more.

Really, if the person you hired person was qualified, it would have have you $1,000. This is more an example of when happens when people don't follow directions and has a false confidence that they know what their doing. I would insist on a refund, as all damages were directly cause by them.
 

thibault

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Oct 25, 2009
Messages
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Another vote for a button press to use during the certification process so the tech doesn't have to charge for so much time.
 

vlittle

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May 7, 2006
Messages
525
I see that in SV 15, you can config the system into calibration mode that allows the static/transponder check to be performed without power cycling. Yeah!

Vern
 

lgabriel

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Nov 25, 2013
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Is there an easily printed checklist for the new v15 procedure?

The latest version of the installation manual still lists the old power cycling method (rev AB, p5-23).

If I've collected all the info correctly, it looks like the 91.413 test just requires disabling the auto air/ground mode of the transponder, and the 91.411 test involves an on-screen wizard...but it would be nice to have the steps printed out and ready to go before I get on the clock with the shop.

Thanks!
 

Dynon101

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I see that in SV 15, you can config the system into calibration mode that allows the static/transponder check to be performed without power cycling.  Yeah!

Vern

Vern, When you refer to "SV-15" are you referring to software revision 15?
 

TJRV8

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Mar 12, 2013
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Can someone point me to the documentation showing how to accomplish the altimeter/transponder checks without cycling power to the Skyview for each data point.

Thanks
 

lgabriel

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Nov 25, 2013
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I asked about this three weeks ago and received no response--I don't think the documentation exists yet.

I did two things:
[list bull-blackball]
[*]Turn off transponder Auto Alt/Gnd (Setup > Transponder Setup > Auto Alt/Gnd > None).  This lets you force it to ALT mode through the normal XPNDR menu.
[*]Get the ADAHRS into Pitot/Static Test mode--I think it's under ADAHRS setup.
[/list]
This puts the display into full screen PFD mode, and as far as I can tell automatically sets the baro to 29.92" (I set mine to 29.92" manually before activating this mode just in case).  There isn't a way to adjust/calibrate anything--it's just a display.
 

kurtfly

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This is from the "What's New" in Skyview system software.

Version 15.0.2 11/3/2016

New: Pitot/Static test mode that elmiminates the need for display restarts during transponder checks. Available via SETUP MENU > HARDWARE CALIBRATION > ADAHRS CALIBRATION > PITOT / STATIC TEST MODE.

I had my Pitot static system checked using this method and it works fine. It will display both ADAHRS simultaneously, if installed; so a instant comparison can be done.
 

Raymo

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I just went through my first Pitot Static/transponder test, running 15.2 software. Part of the test requires an adjustment to the barometric pressure, so it was not possible to do that part while in TEST MODE.

We did all the testing in standard mode (not test mode) but switched between primary and backup AD-AHRS. The guy doing the test was impressed with the accuracy of the system but said most fail due to leaking plastic fittings.

If things are a bit wacky on next flight, I expect they'll fix themselves per Dynon's post above about self correct of sensors (post #4).

Question for Dynon:

Is there a reason not to display the barometric pressure on the test mode/calibration screen?

If it were displayed for adjustment, the entire test could be done in TEST mode.
 

Dynon101

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I am preparing for my first pitot static test and have been reading section 5 of the Installation Manual Rev AB and this and another related thread on the forum.

The software revision is SkyView 15.2.0 Software Update (released 06/13/2017) and I have a dual screen/ADAHRS system with a SV-XPNDR-262.

>The guy doing the test was impressed with the accuracy of the system but said most fail due to leaking plastic fittings.

This is a question that I would like to address before the static guy shows up. Is there a way to test the security of my plastic fittings? I have heard of people using a tube over the pitot tube and a tube over the static source and place the free ends in a bucket of water and if the altimeter and airspeed do not move then it is considered sealed. Is that a reasonable procedure?

I am running these fittings:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MY6JEJ9/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The current Rev AB says to simply turn on the SV and make the pressure reading then turn it off (no discussion about "Test Mode" however the thread talks about test mode.

Then there is the transponder test.

Can someone please walk me through the combined pitot/static/transponder process in advance so I can save some time and frustration for the test guy?


THANKS!!!
 

vlittle

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May 7, 2006
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525
Here's the procedure:
1) you will need access to the static system.  I use the alternate static port in the cabin that has a 1/4 NPT fitting that can be removed. Some shops can use your static ports, but it's more difficult.
2) boot and warm up the SV and configure the transponder to turn off the automatic ground/air mode so that you can force it to ALT mode during the tests.
3) set the altimeter to 29.92.  Not sure this is essential but it can't hurt.
4) enter configuration mode and set up the ADAHRS for pitot/static calibration.
5) perform the altimeter/transponder tests.
6) reconfigure the transponder as required.
7) shut down
 
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