Checklist page

[jnmeade]

I'm sad to see that the idea of a checklist in SV is becoming a popularity contest. I'd like one for those of us who would use them.

 

[jakej]

What people want & what they use can be 2 different things, eg I know of several who have the Fuel Flow option but haven't actually used it - go figure !! :

Jake J

 

[jc2da]

With all the room i saved on the panel with a glass panel and no round guages, i simply printed up a nice checklist with a color printer and taped it right to the panel in front of me. For me, this is one case where paper clearly wins. No glare, no batteries, no electrical.

 

[airguy]

With all the room i saved on the panel with a glass panel and no round guages, i simply printed up a nice checklist with a color printer and taped it right to the panel in front of me. For me, this is one case where paper clearly wins. No glare, no batteries, no electrical.

Yes, but think of all that wasted panel space! You clearly need some more electronics to put in there!

 

[mmarien]

With all the room i saved on the panel with a glass panel and no round guages, i simply printed up a nice checklist with a color printer and taped it right to the panel in front of me.

I ended up doing the same thing, but I have a difficult time keeping track of where I am in the list.

 

[jnmeade]

What people want & what they use can be 2 different things, eg I know of several who have the Fuel Flow option but haven't actually used it - go figure !! :

Jake J

I don't understand your point. I've said I had and used a glass checklist. Is there some presumption that if I had one on the SV I now wouldn't use it?
I'm not presuming that others should use them - simply stating my hope that Dynon adds the feature.

 

[jakej]

I'm not presuming that others should use them - simply stating my hope that Dynon adds the feature.[/quote]


Just trying to make a general point that there are so many 'wishes'  & I wonder how many really use all the features, especially in flight. 

IMO there are too many requests for 'features' which could take development time from making existing products/firmware more robust - then there is the issue of cost, surely sometime these add ons have to be paid for somehow ?

Hopefully we don't have any incidents caused by too much head time in the cockpit.  VFR ie visual flying is just that - looking outside 

Jake J

 

[jc2da]

I ended up doing the same thing, but I have a difficult time keeping track of where I am in the list.

mmarien... wow, what a beautiful panel, and that is one of the nicest checklists i have ever seen! i love your sense of style. i am going to have to up my game here!

 

[jnmeade]

Just trying to make a general point that there are so many 'wishes'  & I wonder how many really use all the features, especially in flight. 

IMO there are too many requests for 'features' which could take development time from making existing products/firmware more robust - then there is the issue of cost, surely sometime these add ons have to be paid for somehow ?

Hopefully we don't have any incidents caused by too much head time in the cockpit.  VFR ie visual flying is just that - looking outside 

Jake J

I don't know how Dynon knows what our preferences are unless we communicate them. Then Dynon can make the decision as to what is done. It is Dynon's job to decide on features, not the job of us on this forum to beat down others so they don't speak their mind.

 

[mmarien]

I'll have to agree with Jake that VFR flight is as it suggests - looking outside. With that in mind, a minimal Skyview is kind of over kill for VFR flight - yet we put a lot of effort and money into continually adding to the panel. So yeah, there is lots of stuff there that people don't use - or don't know that it's there to use.

However, looking at the safest part of the industry, commercial airlines, checklists are a big part of that safety record. I make my passengers wait until I finish the pre-flight checklist even for that single lap around the city. Part of the experience.

If it happens, I'd like to see an interactive checklist. Something more than a plastic coated paper list or on screen PDF file. I think we have the technology to have the checklist tell us that we don't have enough fuel on board to make the destination waypoint on the flight plan we just loaded, and so much more. Don't have to use it if you don't want to.

 

[paul330]

What you are asking for is the close-loop or sensed items on an electronic checklist - they automatically check if in the correct position. Maybe also, tailored checklists for abnormals. The complexity and sensors required to achieve this are, I feel, way beyond the scope of experimental homebuilds.

 

[jnmeade]

I was set on the SV 10", but this whole discussion got me to looking at alternatives and the G3X offers a list capability.

 

[johnsteichen]

Good grief, you just do not need everything in one device. I use a mini ipad for backup nav, approach plates, Use "Notes" for all your check lists.
The Ipad combined with as ADS-B receiver will provide back up traffic, weather, navigation. The extra display allows multiple display of different items, that the single screen will never be able to do. :-/

 

[jakej]

JohnS  -

I like your style 

Jake J

 

[mmarien]

The complexity and sensors required to achieve this are, I feel, way beyond the scope of experimental homebuilds.

On the contrary. I think the whole idea for experimental is just that.  As far as complexity my system already knows:
[list bull-blackball][*]my engine is started and disables the power to the starter switch
[*]my airspeed is beyond the flap speed limit and won't extend the flaps
[*]a bulb is burnt out and reminds me to replace it
[*]automatically adjusts the spark timing and meters the fuel for the power setting - more effectively then I can
[*]adjusts the propeller pitch to limit the RPM
[*]feeds frequencies to the radio depending on airport proximity
[*]the ground or obstacle is within xxx feet and shades the map red and yellow to remind me
[*]etc.
[/list]The old model of independent instruments with individual task has been replaced with integration. Skyview already knows that I can't make the waypoint with the fuel I have onboard. It just needs the opportunity to remind me - before I depart. :-?

 

[jakej]

[/quote]
I don't know how Dynon knows what our preferences are unless we communicate them.  Then Dynon can make the decision as to what is done.  It is Dynon's job to decide on features, not the job of us on this forum to beat down others so they don't speak their mind.

[/quote]

Exactly    Just making the point, again  - be careful what you wish for.   I certainly don't want a 'box' crammed full of features that take ages to use/find in the menus or takes a lot of button pushing. 

I think JohnS has the right mix - I'll be using iPad in addition to SV for things like weather ( we don't have your info system re ADSB/ WX/TIS available here) etc & it will give some redundancy too.  ;D

Jake J

 

[NASA515]

Good grief, you just do not need everything in one device. I use a mini ipad for backup nav, approach plates, Use "Notes" for all your check lists.

Good Grief - I thought the whole idea was to put as much as possible into one device. That's certainly what iPads do and what their owners seem to love.

I enjoy pointing out to visitors all the features that are in SV and why the panel is so clean and sparse. Fact is - the previous Dynon system had Checklists and the new one, with bigger screen, doesn't. Dynon made the decision to omit based upon their perception that everyone had a tablet. But I don't and some other posters don't. I'm not sure where I would put it, or how I would manipulate while flying.

Some people need checklists to fly a kite. Still, I think the printed and laminated paper checklist would be the best option for those wanting one.

Hmmm, I'm not sure what to make of this comment? The author doesn't believe in checklists? Or even uses one? I spent 45 years in the Heavy Metal business and Checklists are to me what the catechism is to a Priest saying Mass. I can say them in my sleep.....and often do.

Bob Bogash
RV-12
N737G

 

[airguy]

Hmmm, I'm not sure what to make of this comment?  The author doesn't believe in checklists?  Or even uses one?   I spent 45 years in the Heavy Metal business and Checklists are to me what the catechism is to a Priest saying Mass.  I can say them in my sleep.....and often do.

Bob Bogash
RV-12
N737G

Nothing of the sort - checklists are a good thing and I use one - but some/many/most items (depending on a pilots level of understanding of mechanics, physics, aerodynamics, and situation awareness) are common-sense items or memory items. People have varying degrees of ability to cope in a multi-tasking environment. If you need a complex checklist to be safe, then I suggest you use one. If you only need a minimalist checklist for major items because the other stuff is second nature or automatic, then proceed with the minimalist checklist. It is up to each pilot to know (and abide by) their own limits.

I'm an engineer by trade, you can bet we use checklists daily - but there are also many things we don't use checklists for simply because it's commonsense (in our world, doing what we do daily). It's no different for a competent pilot - it doesn't take 10 steps on a piece of paper to slow down in the downwind and drop 10 degrees of flaps - or at least it SHOULDN'T - but I know people (and you probably do too) that need those steps printed out or they'll screw them up.

 

[JPBernoux]

Here is an easy first step Dynon could provide short of complex totally integrated Checklists:
- Allow Skyview to upload plain text as files
- Allow Skyview to display these files in a pop-up window on demand

Here you have your checklists that are just copies of the paper versions you are currently using and the development effort for Dynon is close to zero because I am pretty sure they already have such capabilities reserved for their developers/testers.
The misconception in many previous posts on the subject is to consider the Skyview Checklists as an option that excludes the other alternatives, paper or tablets. When (note: not If ) I get the checklists in my Skyview, I will still do my preflight with a paper checklist (guess why :). In case of emergency I will still carry my paper checklists in the plane, they will just be copies of the ones I uploaded in my Skyview. But once I sit in the cockpit I will not have to hold this booklet on my lap, turn the pages, have it slip on the floor etc...
Frankly, not having Dynon providing such a simple and helpful feature or having customers arguing about its usefulness is beyond my comprehension :

 

[preid]

Vertical Power did a real disservice to anyone who didn't get a VP-200 when they were available.
I not only have a checklist, I have one that comes on for every mode the plane is in (preflight, startup, taxi, runup, TO, cruise, Landing, etc..)
With that said, being a guru with this feature that is automated, versus requiring dials and buttons to go through pages, Dynon has more important features that should be added before taking time to make a checklist, it's a nice feature but that is easily resolved with a piece of paper. HDG on the Autopilot is not so "simple" to do without being an "expert" for example. The priority of efforts should go to features that make flying easier and are not easily resolved with something that takes just as much effort to read on paper.
Not saying its not a nice request, its a great idea, but believe me, even with it being as fantastic as the VP-200 is I still will use paper for my preflight walk around and start-up, so I need the paper anyway (actually its on my ipad too).