Checklist page
- Thread starter 65xx
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Count me as a "paper" man!
I use a laminated "flipover" booklet with no more than 8 items per page. Do those, then flip to the next page.
That makes sure that everything gets done and, if interupted, I simply have to start back at the top of the page.
Using a marker on the laminated page I can tick each item as I do it
Given that even a Light Sport Aircraft can now have some very sophisticated systems, this system allows me to easily edit the list by putting in or taking out a page.
Let's face it, homebuilt aircraft tend to be very varied in their equipment and incorporate a lot of the builders ideas and preferences, my aircraft, for instance, has standby instruments which run on power, but have a back up battery. Checking the battery before turning on the master switch is both an essential and "sequence critical" part of the pre-start check, you have to do things in the right order or the check is meaningless.
How do you easily incorporate that level of flexibility into a Skyview checklist?
I use a laminated "flipover" booklet with no more than 8 items per page. Do those, then flip to the next page.
That makes sure that everything gets done and, if interupted, I simply have to start back at the top of the page.
Using a marker on the laminated page I can tick each item as I do it
Given that even a Light Sport Aircraft can now have some very sophisticated systems, this system allows me to easily edit the list by putting in or taking out a page.
Let's face it, homebuilt aircraft tend to be very varied in their equipment and incorporate a lot of the builders ideas and preferences, my aircraft, for instance, has standby instruments which run on power, but have a back up battery. Checking the battery before turning on the master switch is both an essential and "sequence critical" part of the pre-start check, you have to do things in the right order or the check is meaningless.
How do you easily incorporate that level of flexibility into a Skyview checklist?
I cast my vote in favor of implementing checklistsin the EFIS but with one provisal: they need to be implemented in a smart way which takes advantage of the fact that it is running on a computer which knows a lot about where I am and what I am currently doing.
There are checklists for various phases of a flight: engine start, taxi, take-off, climb, cruise, descent, arrival, landing, shut-down and emergencies (to name just the more common ones). The EFIS should know which checklist I want and present the most likely choice in a convenient manner to me. Emergency checklists should always be available with the least amount of menu browsing.
The checklist should automatically fill those items which it knows about (i.e., air speed, engine rpm, electrical voltage, etc, etc.). The pilot should still be required to acknowledge the value but it would be convenient to see it right there on the checklist. So, e.g., the item "Engine rpm set to 1000" would turn "green" as soon as engine rpm is 1000 rpm (give or take a little). So there ought to be 3 states an item can be in: unchecked, value checked by EFIS, item confirmed by pilot.
The EFIS should issue a warning that there are unchecked items on the list at predetermined phases of the flight. If you start the engine prior to working through the startup checklist, the EFIS would complain. Similarly if you start to taxi before the pre-taxi checklist, etc. Getting close to your destination should prompt you for the arrival check. And within, a pre-determined distance and altitude from your landing spot you should be prodded to work through the landing checklist.
I know this is not a trivial addition to the functionality of the EFIS. But it would be the only justification for having checklists on it. A simple sheet of laminated paper is still better if all you want to achieve is displaying static and unchanging information.
And, by the way, there ought to be a simple way of shutting the EFIS up when it complains about checklists not having been worked through.
Greetings, -- Chris.
There are checklists for various phases of a flight: engine start, taxi, take-off, climb, cruise, descent, arrival, landing, shut-down and emergencies (to name just the more common ones). The EFIS should know which checklist I want and present the most likely choice in a convenient manner to me. Emergency checklists should always be available with the least amount of menu browsing.
The checklist should automatically fill those items which it knows about (i.e., air speed, engine rpm, electrical voltage, etc, etc.). The pilot should still be required to acknowledge the value but it would be convenient to see it right there on the checklist. So, e.g., the item "Engine rpm set to 1000" would turn "green" as soon as engine rpm is 1000 rpm (give or take a little). So there ought to be 3 states an item can be in: unchecked, value checked by EFIS, item confirmed by pilot.
The EFIS should issue a warning that there are unchecked items on the list at predetermined phases of the flight. If you start the engine prior to working through the startup checklist, the EFIS would complain. Similarly if you start to taxi before the pre-taxi checklist, etc. Getting close to your destination should prompt you for the arrival check. And within, a pre-determined distance and altitude from your landing spot you should be prodded to work through the landing checklist.
I know this is not a trivial addition to the functionality of the EFIS. But it would be the only justification for having checklists on it. A simple sheet of laminated paper is still better if all you want to achieve is displaying static and unchanging information.
And, by the way, there ought to be a simple way of shutting the EFIS up when it complains about checklists not having been worked through.
Greetings, -- Chris.
Be careful what you wish for!
I fly commercial with an ECL which works pretty much as you advocate and, to be honest, it's a real PITA. The whole system is far too rigid which detracts from what you are trying to achieve - an easier and safer operation. And let's face it, ticking an electronic box no more guarantees that the item has physically been completed than reading from a paper checklist.
My feeling is that it is an unnecessary complication, it is technology for technology's sake and just one more thing to drag your head inside the cockpit staring at screens.
I fly commercial with an ECL which works pretty much as you advocate and, to be honest, it's a real PITA. The whole system is far too rigid which detracts from what you are trying to achieve - an easier and safer operation. And let's face it, ticking an electronic box no more guarantees that the item has physically been completed than reading from a paper checklist.
My feeling is that it is an unnecessary complication, it is technology for technology's sake and just one more thing to drag your head inside the cockpit staring at screens.
Even then, critical items (such as fire or engine failure) should be memory items. Less critical ( alternator failure, for instance) you have time to pull out a paper checklist. I find that in many checklists there are conditionals which require you to make an entry into an ELC system to move the checklist in the right direction. As I said, it's a real PITA........
jnmeade
Active Member
I took the Dynon Skyview course at Oshkosh and found it very good. Kirk implied that the checklist feature is bubbling closer to the top and may be available in the not too distant feature.
He showed us that when a display value is entered, a warning can be popped up. For example, if one has low voltage, a yellow background warning text is posted and one can then cause it to disappear or whatever.
I suggested to him that it might be convenient to have a checklist pop up when the warning pop-up is presented. Maybe only on serious warnings, or whatever, but the point is it may be possible to link a checklist or other text message with a condition and present it. Situational dependent and of course one would hope the operator could set it up to suit his requirements.
He showed us that when a display value is entered, a warning can be popped up. For example, if one has low voltage, a yellow background warning text is posted and one can then cause it to disappear or whatever.
I suggested to him that it might be convenient to have a checklist pop up when the warning pop-up is presented. Maybe only on serious warnings, or whatever, but the point is it may be possible to link a checklist or other text message with a condition and present it. Situational dependent and of course one would hope the operator could set it up to suit his requirements.
RVDan
I love flying!
Now that SV has the sectionals, I find little reason for the Ipad except for the checklist. Add checklist to SV and the Ipad will be gone. 
Chris;
What you are asking for is what we who have VP-200's already get. In addition to the checklist we also get automation (fuel boost kicks in on takeoff, landing light on for landing, off for taxi, etc..a full predetermined emergency procedure if there is a emergency)
Personally,I would not use a Dynon checklist as it takes up critical screen space, but if Dynon chose to do this feature it would be huge for those who dont have a system like the VP-200.
What you are asking for is what we who have VP-200's already get. In addition to the checklist we also get automation (fuel boost kicks in on takeoff, landing light on for landing, off for taxi, etc..a full predetermined emergency procedure if there is a emergency)
Personally,I would not use a Dynon checklist as it takes up critical screen space, but if Dynon chose to do this feature it would be huge for those who dont have a system like the VP-200.
TRCsmith
Member
Where does one start?
First off reading a checklist on a screen that now offers less space for critical information for flight is not to bright. Head down reading and re reading the electronic checklist while moving along at 2 to 3 miles per minute is not good.
If you have a engine fire electric fire or the engine quits you better know what to do by memory and not trying to find the correct checklist while your burning up or loosing altitude fast. You still need to fly the plane. Memory items are best, use the checklist to clean up if you have time.
I use a paper checklist that I can hold up and read while glancing out side. Besides it also makes a good sun block/visor. As I said before, I never used the checklist in my D100 nor would I use them in my SV if it had them.
First off reading a checklist on a screen that now offers less space for critical information for flight is not to bright. Head down reading and re reading the electronic checklist while moving along at 2 to 3 miles per minute is not good.
If you have a engine fire electric fire or the engine quits you better know what to do by memory and not trying to find the correct checklist while your burning up or loosing altitude fast. You still need to fly the plane. Memory items are best, use the checklist to clean up if you have time.
I use a paper checklist that I can hold up and read while glancing out side. Besides it also makes a good sun block/visor. As I said before, I never used the checklist in my D100 nor would I use them in my SV if it had them.
Sounds like someone has our conference room bugged. Great debate points, and ones that we've thought about too. Checklists has taken a bit of a back seat to other features precisely because it's hard to make a "complete" solution, and then you have to ask yourself if the EFIS screen is really the right place for them in the first place. Now, all that said, we listen to your requests and this is one of the ones we're hearing about more and more lately. As Kirk said, it's moving up the list (Disclaimer: no promises or timeframe are implied by this post )
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There's a two year old thread here, with lots of info:
As we said in post #2, doing checklists is on the list of features. However, data shows they were not used a lot in the D10/D100 series products. We have not said no to checklists, we just need to prioritize them. As you can see from this thread, there is far from consensus that it would be universally used.
One challenge is making them into something that is not a liability- for instance if they can only be entered via a Windows PC of which 95% of our customers use, people will tell us we are stupid and biased and that Apple products are the future
Second was the recent discussion of automating the pull-up of a checklist based on a failure. This is likely even farther out. Bringing up a huge checklist that covers your map, EMS and maybe more because we threw a warning for oil pressure is not a good thing, so we'll need to think that one out a lot more. See some of the complaints of automated electronic checklists that are in this thread too.
As we said in post #2, doing checklists is on the list of features. However, data shows they were not used a lot in the D10/D100 series products. We have not said no to checklists, we just need to prioritize them. As you can see from this thread, there is far from consensus that it would be universally used.
One challenge is making them into something that is not a liability- for instance if they can only be entered via a Windows PC of which 95% of our customers use, people will tell us we are stupid and biased and that Apple products are the future
Second was the recent discussion of automating the pull-up of a checklist based on a failure. This is likely even farther out. Bringing up a huge checklist that covers your map, EMS and maybe more because we threw a warning for oil pressure is not a good thing, so we'll need to think that one out a lot more. See some of the complaints of automated electronic checklists that are in this thread too.