While out test flying my new Skyview today near LAS class B airspace, I was not able to depict anything other than the outer limits of the class B airspace. I zoomed in and out and tried different distance settings in the menu, but all I was able to see was the outer limits and overall height of the airspace. I know the various layers should be depicted with their altitudes but I had no luck. Any suggestions?
Class B altitudes
- Thread starter cjhukill
- Start date
Juvat
Member
I have to agree with this. I fly in the Phoenix Class B and very often am unable to find the Class B altitudes on my 7" Skyview display. When I am able to find an altitude by zooming way out, the numbers are extremely difficult to read due to the black background text shadow effect that is used. It makes the numbers look chunky and fuzzy--quite difficult to read them. And no, I'm not an old guy with bad eyes 
Dynon, could you please address this problem in a future update? Many thanks!
Karl
Dynon, could you please address this problem in a future update? Many thanks!
Karl
I have no problem reading the numbers with v5.0, but I agree I need to scroll out to see the various altitudes for not only B but C as well, which is basically my whole area in LAX area. Be great if the numbers could move with the zoom level so when viewed from 5,8, 12 miles one can easily see the altitudes for that section.
There are times I need to pull out the TAC to get the altitudes for the area (it's just faster than trying to get it on the PFD)so I have the work around but it sure would be nice not to have to, if it can be easily done on the PFD.
There are times I need to pull out the TAC to get the altitudes for the area (it's just faster than trying to get it on the PFD)so I have the work around but it sure would be nice not to have to, if it can be easily done on the PFD.
Juvat
Member
I have 5.0 and always the latest updates. Still having the same problem with the Class B altitudes displaying conveniently.
After further study, I have found that the Class B is not being depicted at all,I was actually only seeing the classC airspace. I have re loaded the the latest database,and no help. I cannot get the classB to show at any settings!!! I will reload the version 5 software tomorrow and see if that helps. Chime in here Dynon, please.
jakej
Well-Known Member
No need for Dynon to chime in here guys, I believe there is a "bug" with airspace depiction with version 5.0 which will/should be fixed in the next update this month
Jake J
Jake J
cjhukill- I checked today on a local flight and you are correct I see C airspace but nothing for B airspace. The C airspace does require a zoom out and it makes it very hard to read the altitudes.
Glad this is a known issue and will be rectified in the coming weeks. Hopefully with the numbers moving to be seen in smaller ranges. (5-12 miles)
Glad this is a known issue and will be rectified in the coming weeks. Hopefully with the numbers moving to be seen in smaller ranges. (5-12 miles)
Juvat
Member
Do we really know that this is going to be addressed in a future update? I haven't been able to find anything directly from Dynon on this topic.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
- Messages
- 13,226
So first of all - the only KNOWN airspace issues are with non-current non-US data that is not updated to the latest when 5.0 is installed. That can be fixed by updating to the latest data cycle release.
Here in the US, we don't know of any depiction issues, though, we're investigating base on these reports. A few questions, for those of you experiencing this:
-What database source are you using?
-What database release cycle (under SETUP MENU > LOCAL DISPLAY SETUP > INSTALLED DATABASES)? If not the free US data, update to the latest cycle available.
- Check your settings under MAP > MAP MENU > MAP ITEMS. Is the zoom level set appropriately for the class you're not seeing?
Here in the US, we don't know of any depiction issues, though, we're investigating base on these reports. A few questions, for those of you experiencing this:
-What database source are you using?
-What database release cycle (under SETUP MENU > LOCAL DISPLAY SETUP > INSTALLED DATABASES)? If not the free US data, update to the latest cycle available.
- Check your settings under MAP > MAP MENU > MAP ITEMS. Is the zoom level set appropriately for the class you're not seeing?
Juvat
Member
Here's what I have:
1. Skyview 5.0 running on dual SV-700 displays
2. Latest release cycle (10 Jan) loaded yesterday, and current databases (always) before that.
3. Free USA database
4. Zoom settings are all default, I never changed them
My first issue is being unable to read the Class B airspace altitudes at certain zoom levels. I almost always need to zoom way out to be able to find the altitude of a Class B sector displayed in a fixed position on the map. It would be really nice if the altitudes in sectors could reposition with each zoom level so that they are always displayed on the screen, regardless of zoom.
My second issue is that the Class B altitude text is difficult to read due to a washed out / fuzzy appearance that seems to be caused by the text shadow and color combination. Note that I'm using the 7" displays, so this might be a factor as well. If there's a way to clear up the text a bit, that would be quite helpful.
I should note that I don't have any age-related (or otherwise) vision problems. No vision correction required in the cockpit for near vision or low light conditions.
Thanks for taking a look at this.
1. Skyview 5.0 running on dual SV-700 displays
2. Latest release cycle (10 Jan) loaded yesterday, and current databases (always) before that.
3. Free USA database
4. Zoom settings are all default, I never changed them
My first issue is being unable to read the Class B airspace altitudes at certain zoom levels. I almost always need to zoom way out to be able to find the altitude of a Class B sector displayed in a fixed position on the map. It would be really nice if the altitudes in sectors could reposition with each zoom level so that they are always displayed on the screen, regardless of zoom.
My second issue is that the Class B altitude text is difficult to read due to a washed out / fuzzy appearance that seems to be caused by the text shadow and color combination. Note that I'm using the 7" displays, so this might be a factor as well. If there's a way to clear up the text a bit, that would be quite helpful.
I should note that I don't have any age-related (or otherwise) vision problems. No vision correction required in the cockpit for near vision or low light conditions.
Thanks for taking a look at this.
Yes, i have to echo this same issue.
In the SFO Bravo, you have more or less the wedding cake. There is a 100/40 ring where the altitude is only shown on the MAP in one location on the map, no matter what the zoom level seems to be.
Thus, the only way i can determine the altitude for a certain shelf is to try and use the joystick to pan along the shelf until i find the altitude that is printed only once for the entire ring. The shelf has a few joggles in it. This is pretty klunky and error-prone. This is in my home airspace, no less. I can't imagine the confusion that someone not familiar with the airspace would have coming here.
Often times, i switch to Foreflight and Ipad to lookup airspace altitudes. The sectional shows the altitudes more than once for the ring so it's easier to find there.
In the SFO Bravo, you have more or less the wedding cake. There is a 100/40 ring where the altitude is only shown on the MAP in one location on the map, no matter what the zoom level seems to be.
Thus, the only way i can determine the altitude for a certain shelf is to try and use the joystick to pan along the shelf until i find the altitude that is printed only once for the entire ring. The shelf has a few joggles in it. This is pretty klunky and error-prone. This is in my home airspace, no less. I can't imagine the confusion that someone not familiar with the airspace would have coming here.
Often times, i switch to Foreflight and Ipad to lookup airspace altitudes. The sectional shows the altitudes more than once for the ring so it's easier to find there.
My point exactly-I see the airspace but because LA airspace is so busy the D numbers, which are the same color as B seems to get mixed in with the B airspace and I can not see altitudes (unless I move the joystick to where it is showing)
Dynon-I have the 1/10/13 database and obstacle installed. I do see the altitudes for all airspace but I need to scroll to find them. I admit I had my airport (FUL) in D make me think that I was not seeing the B airspace above it since it did not show up above the 8 and in some cases 12 mile zoom. Once I scrolled I noticed that the altitudes are there.
I second Jchang- the numbers need to move with the zoom (if possible) or be more center to the respective area. In one case the altitudes sit in the bottom left of the whole area..
Dynon-I have the 1/10/13 database and obstacle installed. I do see the altitudes for all airspace but I need to scroll to find them. I admit I had my airport (FUL) in D make me think that I was not seeing the B airspace above it since it did not show up above the 8 and in some cases 12 mile zoom. Once I scrolled I noticed that the altitudes are there.
I second Jchang- the numbers need to move with the zoom (if possible) or be more center to the respective area. In one case the altitudes sit in the bottom left of the whole area..
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
- Messages
- 13,226
So, for those of you that are having trouble seeing some airspace altitude numbers: 4.0 (and higher) introduced an algorithm that disallows text items to collide with other things, which improves general legibility. One of the tradeoffs here was that in some very dense areas, it may be hard (or even impossible, in some rare case), with some clutter settings, to get some of the altitude numbers up, because they will be perceived by the system as colliding with some other higher priority thing, such as an airport. So one thing you can try is playing with your zoom levels of OTHER map items. Beyond that, this is on our radar, though we don't have an immediate solution.
Karl - can you take a screenshot of what you'e seeing so we can see exactly what you do (fuzzy text). Buttons 2/7 with a USB stick attached will save off a screenshot which you can post here.
For anyone that believes they aren't seeing ANY airspace outlines:
-What database source are you using?
-What database release cycle (under SETUP MENU > LOCAL DISPLAY SETUP > INSTALLED DATABASES)? If not the free US data, update to the latest cycle available.
- Check your settings under MAP > MAP MENU > MAP ITEMS. Is the zoom level set appropriately for the class you're not seeing?
Karl - can you take a screenshot of what you'e seeing so we can see exactly what you do (fuzzy text). Buttons 2/7 with a USB stick attached will save off a screenshot which you can post here.
For anyone that believes they aren't seeing ANY airspace outlines:
-What database source are you using?
-What database release cycle (under SETUP MENU > LOCAL DISPLAY SETUP > INSTALLED DATABASES)? If not the free US data, update to the latest cycle available.
- Check your settings under MAP > MAP MENU > MAP ITEMS. Is the zoom level set appropriately for the class you're not seeing?
OK, mystery solved for the missing Class B. Upon the direction of Dynon tech support, I went out to screen shot what I was and was not seeing. In the process I decided to experiment with something in the map setup menu that I hadn't before: Just below "obstacles" was a selection called "airspaces below". I had never changed that because I could not find an explanation in the installation or pilots manual of what that was for. So I decided to play around with the 500 feet default setting, that it was set at. Once I set it above 10,000 feet, up pops the Class B! I can only guess that the setting is to de-clutter airspace that's below you, but why would the class B not show up if it goes all the way to the ground? And why does the Class C show up when it has the same floor and top? So I reset it to 17,500 so nothing else gets de-cluttered until Dynon gives us an explanation of what that feature is for and how to use it. Meanwhile everyone should check their settings and make sure not they're not de-cluttering stuff that you shouldn't be.
Re: Class B altitudes- colors
Did the changes from 4.0 with the text colors get modified in 5.0?
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1354036624/1#1
It does not look different for me than the pictures Jchang has on the thread.
Did the changes from 4.0 with the text colors get modified in 5.0?
http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1354036624/1#1
It does not look different for me than the pictures Jchang has on the thread.
Juvat
Member
I went out today and flew around the PHX Class B airspace. I am attaching three screen shots from the flight.
1. First issue: Class B sector altitudes not always displayed.
A. The first shows 5 different Class B sectors, but only one sector (at bottom of the screen) has the altitude label...barely.
B. The second screen shot is zoomed out one level. Now you can see half of a sector altitude label peeking out from behind the ADS-B FULL label at the lower right side of the display. Still no Class B altitude labels for 4 of the 6 sectors shown at this zoom level.
C. Zoom out one more level. Now some more Class B altitudes are displayed. So we see that in order to read a Class B altitude, it requires one to fidget with the map zoom level a bit until the numbers show up. Is it bad? No, not really. But wouldn't it be nice if the display software could ensure that a Class B sector altitude is always visible within a sector, regardless of zoom level?
2. Second issue: difficult to read Class B sector altitudes. When you're looking at these screen shots in your comfy chair at zero knots and zero AGL, you may think to yourself that there's no problem. But now imagine yourself sitting in the sun, with continuous light turbulence. Those dark blue numbers with black outline turn into a nearly unreadable blob. It's not difficult to read other labels on the screen because the colors stand out more. But dark blue with black outline sort of mush together into a quite difficult to read mess--especially in flight.
1. First issue: Class B sector altitudes not always displayed.
A. The first shows 5 different Class B sectors, but only one sector (at bottom of the screen) has the altitude label...barely.
B. The second screen shot is zoomed out one level. Now you can see half of a sector altitude label peeking out from behind the ADS-B FULL label at the lower right side of the display. Still no Class B altitude labels for 4 of the 6 sectors shown at this zoom level.
C. Zoom out one more level. Now some more Class B altitudes are displayed. So we see that in order to read a Class B altitude, it requires one to fidget with the map zoom level a bit until the numbers show up. Is it bad? No, not really. But wouldn't it be nice if the display software could ensure that a Class B sector altitude is always visible within a sector, regardless of zoom level?
2. Second issue: difficult to read Class B sector altitudes. When you're looking at these screen shots in your comfy chair at zero knots and zero AGL, you may think to yourself that there's no problem. But now imagine yourself sitting in the sun, with continuous light turbulence. Those dark blue numbers with black outline turn into a nearly unreadable blob. It's not difficult to read other labels on the screen because the colors stand out more. But dark blue with black outline sort of mush together into a quite difficult to read mess--especially in flight.
I noticed that the color for B airspace was set back to the default color from when I changed it in 4.0. Once I made the color 2 change back to the settings I had before I was able to discern the difference that was confusing me before. I would still request the altitudes be shown at a closer range for areas where it is hidden as Karl points out.
Juvat
Member
Dynon tech support, we never heard back from you on this. Is this something you are willing/able to address? The blue/black numbers are difficult to read in the cockpit, and the altitudes don't always show up in a sector depending on zoom level. I'm sure that you have bigger projects to work on, but when you have a chance it might be nice to address these issues in a future update. I'd be interested to learn your thoughts on the matter. Thanks.
jakej
Well-Known Member
May I suggest you see what difference the 'new' software at the end of January makes & then push for a 'fix' if it's not done
Jake J
Jake J