"EDC not detected" in flight

Thomas_Schaad

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Mar 23, 2005
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I was flying quite a bit the last days, since I got the D10A beautifully arranged in my panel. I expirienced now several times an "EDC not detected" message on the EFIS. This happend in intervals of maybe 2 hours. OAT remained on. What I did, was powering the EFIS down and rebooting it. Then it worked out to be fine again.
Still, it's not so satisfactory and I would like to hear your advise on, how to correct this. It happend in level flights as in turns, with communication as without, so I really can't see any common clue yet for the failures.
Thank you very much for your kind advise and

Best regards

Thomas Schaad
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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Hi Thomas,

Because the problem is intermittent, I would suspect a loose connection somewhere in the wiring between the EFIS and the remote compass. Start by trying to replicate the problem on the ground. Manipulate the wires and connectors and see if that causes the heading to fail.

The one thing which doesn't jive with the intermittent connection theory, though, is that you said that if you reboot the EFIS the compass heading comes back up. Does a reboot always bring the heading back?
 

Thomas_Schaad

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Thanks very much for the quick response. I did actually already contact a friend of mine who is an avionics engineer and helps me with all electric and electronic stuff on the airplane. We did already "shake" the cables through and all connections looked properly.

The heading came always back after rebooting the unit. What he asked about the system, is if there are any filters in the wires in order to shield them against magnetic fields caused by the radios. He will put me two of them in the wires the next days - one at each end - and then we shall hopefully know more.

I am gald if you could give me some indications how the system is shielded, I will keep you advised if our action is going to help. Thanks in advance and

Kind regards

Thomas Schaad ;)
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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The connection, though it happens to be shielded on our pre-made harness, doesn't really need to be. The type of serial data going between the EFIS and EDC and is not really susceptible to interference.

Here's a test that may help determine whether or not there is something wrong with the EFIS: After the compass has failed, disconnect and reconnect the 9 pin EDC-D10 cable with the unit still on. If the heading does not come back up, then this is an indication that there may be something wrong with the EFIS itself. IMPORTANT - only perform this test if you have no OAT probe or a "type 2" OAT probe. This is the probe that has a piece of black heat-shrink tubing near the sensor end. If you do this with a type 1 OAT probe attached you will damage the OAT. No OAT or type 2 is fine.
 

lyates

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Aug 30, 2005
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I also have this same problem..same thing...reboot and it comes up,
I might have it happening a little more often, did you get it resolved....
I can't unplug the db9 connector as I have a type 1 OAT
I have shook wires until I am blue in the face....
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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Have also checked the quality of the connection at the EDC end?
 

lyates

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yes, with ohm meter...then actually I did entire connection over, just on the off chance I was missing something/
 

dynonsupport

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What version of firmware do you have loaded on your EFIS? We've had a couple issues in the past with firmware on the EFIS and EDC being mismatched from the factory, leading to problems. Just to make sure, go ahead and upload the latest version of firmware for your particular EFIS, with the EDC connected and working.
 

lyates

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Aug 30, 2005
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downloaded new install program, but when i attempted to download 10A
firmware code raw code displayed. it did not down load....
went to plane and checked version though and it says 2.12
seems as though the disconnect while working is getting worse....
can't pinp[oit what causes it...left it on for hour with plane just sitting and it never disconnected....but took it up and it disconnected within about 20 minutes...rebooted and said all was ok, got right heading and temperature...lose both edc and Oat...
This is an upgrade unit for 10
 

dynonsupport

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The raw code displays when you try to open the file from within Windows Explorer, instead of from within the Dynon Product Support Program. Be sure to download the latest Product Support Program from: http://dynonavionics.com/docs/support_software.html#PCProgram .

To upload firmware to the EFIS, open up the Support Program first. Instead of doing a "Detect Firmware Version," select "Upload Firmware/Settings Backup". Then, select the .efs file where you saved it on your PC. This should upload the firmware correctly. Please try this first and let us know if you have further connection problems.
 
K

Keith Mackey(Guest)

Guest
I have a similar problem. Got an error message in the area where the remote compass tape displays that read: REMOTE COMPASS NOT DETECTED.

I have the type 2 OAT probe installed and during the entire time the error message was displayed, the OAT indication and TAS seemed to work normally. Got a meeage asking if I wanted to uninstall the remote compass system. When I did, the internal compass was displayed. It had been calibrated before the EDC-10 was installed, but now displayed about 180 degrees out. Rebooting caused the remote compass to be reinstalled, but I again got the REMOTE COMPASS NOT DETECTED message in a few seconds.

Landed airplane, rebooted, shook connections, etc. Compass works normally and I can't get it to fail. Any ideas?

Keith
 
K

Keith Mackey(Guest)

Guest
Follow on to previous post.

Decided to fly again to see if error reoccured. While linning up with runway, got REMOTE COMPASS NOT DETECTED message where the compass tape should be and in a blck outlined gray box at screen center. OAT continued to function normally. Did not reboot, but left system powered. Shook all teminals vigourously including type 2 OAT connection. Error message remained.

Disconnected cable to EDC-D10A and reconnected. Error cleared on reconnection and normal compass display returned.

Keith
 
K

Keith Mackey(Guest)

Guest
Second follow up:

Nothing heard from Dynon Support on Friday, so I decided to troubleshoot on my own. I assumed that Dynon would suspect a faulty harness, so I verified wiring of my homemade unshielded harness with a Fluke 70 digital ohmeter. Everything checked okay. opened all connector shells and reseated the machined pins then verified integrity again with ohmeter, and reinstalled. The system operated normally for one flight and then I got the REMOTE COMPASS NOT DETECTED message again just after making a radio transmission on 122.9. Rebooted the system, and found that on transmitting, the compass would spin wildly for about 4 seconds then the error message would appear. If I released the PTT button immediately when the message appeared, they system would recover. If the PTT not released immediately, a reboot would be required. The radio transmission was the single factor that caused the error message.

Unplugged the EDC-D10A while EFIS-D10A powered (I have a type 2 probe) and found the EFIS did not loose the OAT indication until the system was downpowered. THis would indicate that an OAT indication is not evidence that the EDC is still connected, only that it was connected since the last reboot long enough for the EFIS to capture the temperature, which then would not change, but would be used by the EFIS to compute TAS & DA. If the EDC/OAT not reconnected, the temp would be lost on reboot.

Tuned the radio to 118.9 and transmitted - no problem - the compass never moved and no error message. Same at 134.9 - no problem, but from about 120.0 to about 126.0 the problem would occur. Hardly noticable at these frequencies, but really bad in the middle where I had experienced the problem.

FYI - I'm using a Bob Archer dipole antenna needed in the wooden fuselage because no ground plane surface is available. The antenna is about 30" from the EDC. The VSWR is in the normal range and the King KY-92 puts about 8 watts into the antenna.

VSWR could not be the problem as it would be lowest at the frequency to which the antenna was cut, and should climb as the frequency became higher or lower. My problem was at mid band where VSWR is lowest

I became suspicious of the OAT probe wiring. I set the EFIS to "N" (no probe) and the problem remained. On my airplane, the OAT probe is mounted on a fairing that is removed for inspections. If I wired the probe directly into the DB9 connector on the EDC, I would "tether" the panel to the airplane since neither the OAT probe or the DB9 connector and harness could pass through the 3/8" hole for the probe.

I needed to a way to disconnect the probe. Called tech support and they affirmed the manual statement that the type 2 OAT cable can be extended. They did not state if shielded cable was a requirement. I installed three "handshake" type connectors and connected to the EDC DB9 using #22 tefzel unshieled wire. Used about 18 to 24 inches between the end of the shielded cable and the DB9. This allowed the probe wiring to be disconnected when the fairing was removed.

This length of the #22 wire happens to be very close to or at 1/4 wavelength for the frequency range that causes the problem. What to do? is the OAT wiring suseptable to RF if not shielded? Does the whole harnes from the EDC to the EFIS need to be RF shielde? (book says no) or do I have a bad component? Inquiring minds want to know?

Keith
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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Hi Keith,

Though we don't have anything conclusive yet, we are in the process of chasing this down. At this point, we do think that we can solve the problem with a firmware update (which would be downloadable from our website as always.)

Thanks for all of the information you've provided. The things you've noticed correlate to what we've heard from a couple other people, though we don't have a root cause figured out just yet. We'll definitely post back here when we have it solved. Please don't spend too much time chasing it on your end either. It's very possible that we may be able to figure out a software patch that will fix the issue.

A couple of questions that may help us get to the bottom of this:
- Do you have the EFIS internal battery?
- Do you have the Keep Alive line connected?
 
K

Keith Mackey(Guest)

Guest
Thanks for the reply.

To answer your questions:
- I do have the internal battery
- I do not have the keep alive line connected.

Since my last post, I have done the following:
Shortened the unshielded leads attached to the OAT probe. No RF interference on the grounded, but in the air, with about 14.3 volts on the electrical system, I got interference in the 130 to 135 mhz part of the band. Low and mid frequecies were fine.

Decided that by shortining the unshielded wires I had just tuned to a higher frequency, so I fastened the OAT wire directly to the DB-9 connector as described in the instructions. Rf interference is now worse in the 130 to 135 range. I can now get it on the ground with 12 volts applied to the transmitter. I expect it will be worse yet in the air.

Two thoughts:
- The case of the EDC-D10A is not grounded to the airframe as it is not attached to a metal structure. The only ground is via the harness wiring. If the case is not grounded to the harness ground wire internally, it would be easier to pick up RF, because the case would not act as a shield.

- Since the OAT data passes through the unshielded harness to the EFIS-D10A it might allow RF to be picked up. Maybe the entire harness needs to be shielded when the OAT is installed.

People in metal airplanes may have less trouble with this problem than those with composite. With the OAT disconnected there is no RF interference

Keith

-
 
D

Dennis Scearce(Guest)

Guest
My D10 is currently at your shop for the upgrade. I have also ordered the EDC to add to my plane (a carbon fiber Searey)when I reinstall it. If you are close to a firmware fix for this potential problem, will you make sure my upgrade has this fix before you return it?
Thanks,
Dennis
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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It looks like your EFIS hasn't gotten here yet. The firmware update will probably be out soon, but I don't know if your EDC will make it or not. However, as always, the update will be made available on our website for you to download and install yourself.

Note that this particular problem has been experienced by a handful of our thousands of customers, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
 
D

Dennis Scearce(Guest)

Guest
It looks like you guys picked it up on Monday, 5/15. Is your turn around still a couple of weeks?
 

dynonsupport

Dynon Technical Support
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Hi Dennis,

Turn around times one here are generally on the order of a week. Your unit, in particular, will likely get through the upgrade process mid next week.
 

Thomas_Schaad

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Mar 23, 2005
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144
I started this topic and it looks pretty much that I am not alone with this kind of problem ......... ;)

I got the help of a very reputated avionics shop and I can assure you, they meassured about anything trough. We finally came to the conclusion that the COM 1 antenna - a very simple and normal Comant CI-122 causes the remote compass to fail on any frequency above 123.975

Looks simple, relocate the antenna and thats it. But it's not that simple: The antenna can be close and causes moderate disturbance, it can be far and simply kills the remote compass. This field, caused by the COM, is not that easy to determine and changes with changing frequencies.

What was the interesting point to find out, is that the distrubance is mainly brought into the compass trough the remote temperature probe. So rerouting the oat probe's cable and shielding this brought significantly better results. I still have some frequencies, disturbing my heading tape but by far less dramatic than before. My friend the avionics engineer is now thinking about how to shield this cable entierly from anything. Once I have results I will post them.

Good luck to all of you and kind regards

Thomas Schaad
 
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