Emergency glide test findings

[d3mac123]

I just tried the emergency glide feature today. There are my findings:
- Glide ring stills a circular ring - not sure if it is considering weather/terrain in this case (the ring in FF and Garmin Pilot is not circular at all);
- First try (no airports near by) only said "EMERGENCY GLIDE NO VALID AIRPORT". In the second try (with an airport in the glide range), the message was "EMERGENCY GLIDE ACTIVE";
- Autopilot is automatically set to ON (in the case it was OFF), as expected, trying to capture glide speed;
- GPS draws the magenta line to the center of the airport, as expected;
- Although the radio was set to the chosen airport, none of the frequencies were automatically set to that (I was expecting this TBH);
- Differently than Garmin's Safe Glide, no options to set transponder to 7700 nor radio to 121.5 was offered;
- It wasn't clear how to "cancel" the feature (for example, in the case you could restart the engine). I ended up disconnecting the autopilot.

I will try to edit a video for tomorrow.

 

[porterjames]

I used it today as well.
After reading the newest section of the user manual, I didn't have any problems using the feature, other than when engaging (holding the nearest for a few seconds) the message flashes that if you want the emergency glide feature hold the nearest button, otherwise press the nearest button. In order to keep emergency glide, don't remove your finger, just continue to depress the nearest button and the feature will engage. If you remove your finger and press nearest again, it will not engage the autopilot, but it will bring up the nearest airport page.
In order to engage the feature again, just start over again and hold the nearest button until the feature is engaged.
When you are over the airport (or anywhere else you choose) and feel you are ready to take over just disengage the autopilot.
Everything worked as advertised.

 

[airguy]

One thing to be aware of - currently as written, the software will try to capture best-glide speed and take you to the nearest airport. If you are at cruise speed, and/or still making significant power, the autopilot will pitch up and climb excitedly to capture best glide, and then nose over to try and hold it. That can be a bit of a ride and distracting during a high-workload and high-adrenaline time. I have heard a dirty rumor (unconfirmed) that Dynon may be looking at modifying this behavior.

 

[prepperpilot]

Probably a good idea. 160kts to 90kts will be interesting ride. Yikes

 

[chriscalandro]

It’s called “smart glide” and I believe it was designed to be used after an engine out while…. Gliding.

If you are making power and have the ability to still climb, this probably isn’t the feature you want to enable.

 

[porterjames]

If you review the most current revision of the manual, the guide ring is unchanged from previous versions. It does not account for terrain. The manual for emergency glide states that terrain and wind conditions are part of the calculations for determining a suitable airport.

 

[BradThePilot]

If Dynon is going to compete with brand "G", they need to hire some developers who have some experience with aviation and actually flying airplanes. The glide ring is only marginally useful in areas devoid of terrain, and the "smart glide" feature seems like it has the potential to actually hurt someone.

 

[chriscalandro]

If Dynon is going to compete with brand "G", they need to hire some developers who have some experience with aviation and actually flying airplanes. The glide ring is only marginally useful in areas devoid of terrain, and the "smart glide" feature seems like it has the potential to actually hurt someone.

The majority of the people at Dynon are in fact pilots I believe.

It’s ok if you don’t like a thing, you don’t have to use it. Especially if you don’t want to use it properly.

If you want Garmin functionality, and the size and scale of the Garmin team, you should probably just buy a the Garmin suite of products.

 

[d3mac123]

Respectfully, I disagree. All companies should learn from others and improve their products accordingly. Garmin learned a lot from Dynon (and improved some things), especially in the experimental environment. So, why can't Dynon get some inspiration from the competition as well?

 

[prepperpilot]

It would not he difficult to modify software. Perhaps a Max pitch up to 15-20degrees at 2 degrees per second until best glide speed is reached.
Not rocket science

 

[Bob Y]

I have to believe there is intellectual property that prevents Dynon from simply copying what Garmin or others have done. The challenge is being creative and still having something of value.

 

[Marc_J._Zeitlin]

I have to believe there is intellectual property that prevents Dynon from simply copying what Garmin or others have done. The challenge is being creative and still having something of value.

Behavior is not IP.

 

[chriscalandro]

Behavior is not IP.

The function of a product is. Especially when it’s patented.

 

[BradThePilot]

I have to believe there is intellectual property that prevents Dynon from simply copying what Garmin or others have done. The challenge is being creative and still having something of value.

I would tend to agree - the Garmin implementation and the ForeFlight implementation likely each have IP protections that hampers something Dynon might do. Licensing might be expensive to the point of not being feasible.

If you want Garmin functionality, and the size and scale of the Garmin team, you should probably just buy a the Garmin suite of products.

I've been a Dynon customer since the EFIS-D10 came out (and later, the EFIS-D10A, EMS-D10, SkyView, HDX, etc.) and my airplane is 100% Garmin free. However, that doesn't mean that Dynon is the perfect solution. They are falling further behind what other vendors are doing: the glide ring, the lack of enroute VNAV, lack of approval for a number of certified GA aircraft, and more. It's a multi-faceted problem, and probably not one easy that's all that easy to solve.

But ignoring the problem and suggesting that "if you don't like something, go buy Garmin" is naive. Do products ever get better by ignoring their shortcomings?

 

[chriscalandro]

you’re twisting my words and that isn’t what I said at all.

 

[M20Driver]

I have to believe there is intellectual property that prevents Dynon from simply copying what Garmin or others have done. The challenge is being creative and still having something of value.

A former aquaintance who was a Garmin dealer always told me, Garmin has as many lawyers on staff as engineers.

 

[XCtrip]

Not hard to tell where a little 'thread drift' derails the focus of the OP, which was a first-hand observation of the new "Emergency Glide" feature.
Although I appreciate the critique of the feature, in the overall sense, the first-hand first time use is good. I had other issues today, or I would have tried the feature.
Comments about the AP pitch-up to slow to best-glide is a valid 'heads-up' and don't be surprised ... or, it could be simulated 'engine out' by reducing power and a report on that would be appreciated.
There is an assumption in the new feature description that Electric Trim is installed (mine is manual), so a modification to the User Manual would/could mention that aspect? With manual pitch trim, my HDX simply alerts me to Trim Down or Up, when AP is engaged.
Because I fly in the Rocky Mtns, western US, the Synthetic Vision feature might be a good mode to turn ON in Emergency Glide. Another point to add to the User Manual? (The fully articulated Glide "ring" of ForeFlight would be my personal first look.)
Lots of refinements may be added once the feature gets our feedback ... maybe?

 

[Lrandyb]

I think some folks are losing sight of the intent with this feature. First of all, it’s intended to used in the event of an engine failure. So engaging this feature with your engine running and at cruise RPM/Speed is going to produce some very predictable but undesirable results.

As an instructor for an USAF C-130 flight simulator, one of the things I’ve learned is that pilots can tend to get too accustomed to the automation and reliability of their aircraft. When we would give C-130 crews a 4 engine flameout scenario, they would, out of habit, immediately try starting the engines. That’s fine but a C-130 is, at minimum, a 3 man aircraft. One of the pilots would keep flying while the other crew members work on restarting the engines. The problem we discovered was that the crews were so used to that scenario, they knew they’d get their engines back so the pilot flying just simply maintained beat glide speed and maintained level flight. They forgot the basic training they got that said step one is establish best glide, step two is turn toward the nearest strip of concrete you can land on. Only then would you concern yourself with the engine. So we changed up the scenario and didn’t let them restart the engines. It didn’t take them too long to realize they should have made a quicker turn (we usually gave them this scenario shortly after reaching altitude after takeoff so they should have immediate turned toward the departure field).

My point is that this feature is designed to be used with a failed engine and it’s not intended to get you all the way to the nearest airfield but rather take that immediate workload (establishing best glide and turning toward the nearest field) off your plate so you can immediately focus on trying to resolve your engine issue and, if needed, start making emergency radios calls. Once you’ve done that, it’s expected you would disengage the autopilot and land the plane wherever you can.

It’s not a button that you push and sit back and watch the magic happen! It simply helps you deal with the problem.

 

[soarhead]

I have to say, this isn't a feature I want or truly believe is going to save anyone. I would rather point the airplane to a suitable airport and trim for best glide rather than fart around with a system that may or may not give the desired results based on what it has been programmed to do. Not to mention, with proper situational awareness, one should always have a diversion in mind at all times anyway and if the Dynon takes you 180 degrees away from the one you had in mind, it risks confusion and loss of SA. 121.5 is always in my standby and monitored as we do at the airlines, so I need only swap the freq and have every tower, ACC and aircraft monitoring the freq hear my call rather than potentially some un-monitored CTAF.

Nothing is going to happen super fast if an engine fails unless the engine fails at 1000' AGL, in which case, this feature once again, does nothing but potentially inject confusion into the situation. Classic "Children of the Magenta line" potential for the purpose of marketing. We are not flying the Space Shuttle and for most GA pilots, discipline, discipline and some more discipline will do more for your personal safety than any magic bean, or in this case, magic button. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Guenin]

I'll propose a different scenario where this would be useful: if the pilot becomes disabled while in flight, a non-pilot passenger could potentially use this. No, it's not the complete solution that Garmin Autoland is. But it's sure a step in the right direction. I fly behind AFS 5600s, so this feature hasn't bee released to us, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm blessed to have a wife who loves to fly; but she has no interest in manipulating the controls, instead enjoying the view and photographing it. My plane's equipped with a BRS ballistic 'chute, so giving her the ability to head towards the nearest suitable airport and pull the handle has great appeal. Yes, we're working on basic airmanship skills, too, but having her go the whole route to get her PPC is unrealistic. I'm looking forward to trying this out! (...and providing constructive feedback to the development team to help improve it)