FAA ADS-B Out $500 Rebate!

[n456ts]

I just need the 2020 GPS to meet the full 2020 mandate.  Could I apply for the rebate on the GPS? 

I'm not seeing anything Dynon on the FAA web site.  Can any situation using a Dynon Skyview system qualify for the rebate?

FAA Rebate info:  http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/

 

[dynonsupport]

We learned about this today just like you did, so we don't know much right now. We're looking into it.

 

[Dynon101]

!!!CHO ME DA MON-AHY!!!

 

[GalinHdz]

I just need the 2020 GPS to meet the full 2020 mandate.  Could I apply for the rebate on the GPS? 

I'm not seeing anything Dynon on the FAA web site.  Can any situation using a Dynon Skyview system qualify for the rebate?

FAA Rebate info:  http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/

From what I read it applies only to actually TSO'd ADS-B out equipment. The 2020 GPS is not TSO'd nor is it an OUT piece of equipment so it wouldn't  qualify. But the SkyView transponder is TSO'd and it is an OUT piece of equipment so it qualifies. But that is just my 2 cents.
:-[

 

[n456ts]

Looking at the rules it seems like the check of it being installed correctly is flying and having the FAA report showing a good read. I don't think the Skyview system is out of the running. I think the person who wrote the web site only knows the Cessna world.

 

[Dynon101]

I just bought a GTN650 and Dynon transponder...sure would be nice to see some tax dollars back.

 

[GalinHdz]

Looking at the rules it seems like the check of it being installed correctly is flying and having the FAA report showing a good read.  I don't think the Skyview system is out of the running.  I think the person who wrote the web site only knows the Cessna world. 

But the actual rule, not the article, specifies "TSO'd OUT" equipment. The SkyView transponder clearly meets both these requirement and would be eligible for the rebate.

http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/rebate/media/Program_Rules_612016.pdf

 

[rogersmart]

I already have the Dynon Transponder. I have not added the GPS 2020 yet. Dynon, do you think I could get a rebate when I add the GPS 2020?

 

[rvator51]

Right now, it doesnt look like the Dynon Transponder in on the approved list yet. The Trig Transponder is.


http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/equipment/#TA-in

 

[Dynon]

So looking at the official guidance, it looks like our customers should be OK if they meet the requirements on timing/equipment installation/etc. On the eligible equipment part, note the bolded (by us) sections:

Eligible Equipment is defined as avionics that constitute a TSO-certified Version 2 ADS-B Out system,
purchased on or after the program announcement date. Such equipment must have a TSO marking for
TSO-C154c, or TSO-C166b, or both. Eligible ADS-B Out system equipment may have an embedded
position source compliant with one of the following TSOs: TSO-C-145c (or subsequent versions), TSOC146c
(or subsequent versions), or may be connected to a separate position source compliant with TSOC-145c
(or subsequent versions) or TSO-C146c (or subsequent versions). Any separate position source
must comply with the guidance published in FAA Advisory Circular 20-165B. ADS-B In/Out systems
compliant with TSO-C154c, TSO-C166b, or both, are also eligible.

Our transponder, which is made in partnership with Trig, is TSO-C166b, and is labeled as such (first bolded clause). Rebate applicants should probably use the Trig part numbers in their applications. The SV-GPS-2020 position source meets the performance requirements of TSO-C166b, and so it should be eligible too (second bolded clause).

As for the part about the AC. The AC's audience - per the AC itself - is "1.2 Audience. This AC is for anyone who is applying for an initial type certificate (TC), supplemental type certificate (STC), amended TC, or amended STC for the installation and continued airworthiness of ADS-B OUT equipment." In other words, it's for type certificated aircraft installations and the AC isn't applicable for non-type certificated aircraft installations.

The AC also says the following about experimental aircraft:

"3.1.2.1.2 For installations in aircraft with more complex system architectures, a
system safety assessment, as described below, is required to set the SDA.
Installations of uncertified ADS-B systems must set SDA = 0 with the
following exception: experimental category aircraft, including
experimental light-sport aircraft (E-LSA) (Part 91 aircraft), may install
unapproved equipment and set the SDA in accordance with the equipment
manufacturer’s installation manual, provided the equipment has a
statement of compliance to the performance requirements of § 91.227),
from the equipment manufacturer(s).

All that said, as we learn more we'll let you know.

 

[Dynon]

Right now, it doesnt look like the Dynon Transponder in on the approved list yet.  The Trig Transponder is.


http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/equipment/#TA-in

Our SV-XPNDR-261 is actually a special version of the Trig TT-22, but it has all of the same markings and TSOs.

 

[n456ts]

It sounds like everything will be fine.

 

[Dynon101]

I would greatly like to resurrect this post as I dream of $500 in my future.

Has anyone from Dynon researched as to if our Dynon ADS-B system will comply?

 

[Dynon]

We don't have any word from the FAA on this yet.

 

[swatson999]

So let's just say that I already have a SV-XPDR and SV-GPS-2020 installed, but kept my SV-GPS-250 around...the FAQs say:

If an aircraft owner purchases avionics now, could they be eligible for the rebate?

Yes, however the installation will need to occur after the program is implemented in September 2016.

Hmmmm...perhaps I've decided I prefer the 250 for just a few more months? And then later, I may decide I like the 2020 better????

Just sayin'....

 

[GASousa]

Pardon the long quotations but hopefully this helps somehow.  An FAA website states the following:

"For experimental category aircraft there is no FAA approval required for the ADS-B Out system installation. Owners of these aircraft may elect to install equipment authorized under a TSO, in accordance with the installation instructions provided by the manufacturer. Alternatively, owners of these aircraft may elect to purchase uncertified equipment. For uncertified equipment, the owner should obtain a statement of compliance from the supplier, along with installation instructions, that identifies that the ADS-B equipment complies with section 3 requirements of the applicable TSO and that, when installed in accordance with the installation instructions, complies with the aircraft requirements of 14 CFR 91.227. The FAA expects manufacturers to perform appropriate engineering efforts to ensure the equipment complies with all requirements of Section 3 of the TSO before issuing their statement of compliance, and expects installers to consider the guidance in the current version of AC 20-165B when performing the installation." 

And from a Dynon FAQ website, I found the following:  "Doesn’t a 2020 compliant GPS position source needed to be certified (TSO or STC)?

No. The ADS-B equipment in the aircraft must meet the performance requirements of FAR section 91.225.This specifies that ADS-B out equipment must meet specific performance criteria but does not require TSO authorization. In Dynon’s case, the SV-XPNDR-261 is TSO’d. The SV-GPS-2020 is not TSO’d, but Dynon Avionics has performed the necessary engineering to ensure the equipment complies with all performance requirements of 91.225. An aircraft equipped with the SV-GPS-2020 as well as the SV-XPNDR-261 is therefore able to reach a Source Integrity Level (SIL) of 3 and System Design Assurance (SDA) of 2, as well as the other performance metrics required to be compliant with 91.225. Per the FAA’s guidance, Dynon will provide a statement of compliance to our customers."

So, aside from one source referencing 91.227 and the other referencing 91.225 (which itself references 91.227), it would appear that Dynon's ADS-B Out system will qualify for the rebate if installed after the program start date.  But I'm still wondering myself, and hope to find some confirmation.

 

[dynonsupport]

The above quotes are about what kind of equipment can be installed in an EAB or LSA aircraft. We are not experts on the FAA rebate either, however, the rebate says:

Eligible equipment: Avionics that are certified to FAA Technical Standard Orders and meet the program rules (software upgrades of existing equipment are not eligible). Rebates are not available for aircraft already equipped with rule compliant ADS-B or for aircraft the FAA has previously paid or committed to pay for upgrade(s) to meet the ADS-B mandate.

Dynon's transponder is TSO'd, so it appears to comply. The GPS-2020 is not TSO'd however, so it's unclear if it applies. It does appear that if you fly an airplane which has never flown with our transponder before then you are likely eligible if you also have the GPS-2020 on that flight. Upgrades if you already had the transponder are unclear.

 

[GASousa]

After further research, I have to agree with you. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[DonFromTX]

I am one that has already bought all the 2020 stuff. Somehow it seems all kinds of wrong to penalize we who went ahead and complied, then to reward those that have not yet wished to comply. Am I the only one that has that thinking problem?

 

[larrynew]

Somehow it seems all kinds of wrong to penalize we who went ahead and complied, then to reward those that have not yet wished to comply.  Am I the only one that has that thinking problem?

Can't argue. However, if someone offered me $500 a year ago to do without ADS-B traffic and weather for a year, I wouldn't take it!