Lost Nav Source with Garmin 696 ver 6.0

[stevelindell]

I just updated my Garmin 696 system software from 5.0 to 6.0 and now for the first time I'm getting regular "lost nav source"
dropouts to my Dynon D100 autopilot. This almost never happened with ver 5.0, now it's every half hour or so. Any one else seeing this?

 

[JR]

Yes there has been an issue with Garmin units for some years now.
Wish Dynon would fix it

 

[dynonsupport]

Yes there has been an issue with Garmin units for some years now.
Wish Dynon would fix it

We're aware of this issue, but it's been very tough to fix because we've not been able to reproduce it in house. We published a beta version of firmware with (what we think is) a fix for this issue. This post - http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1326367016/0#11 has a link to download the beta software, but please read the entire thread.

Reiterating the point made in the referenced post - please let us know if the beta firmware fixed the issue you're experiencing. If we hear affirmatively from enough customers that the fix did work (and, obviously, didn't break anything else), then we'll consider making this a general release.

 

[stevelindell]

Just got a response from Garmin: Ver 6.0 of the 695/696 system software has a bug and that is the cause. Garmin is working on a fix and hopes to release revised software this week. DO NOT UPDATE FROM Ver 5 to Ver 6.0. You can't go back once you install a higher version.

Note this is a NEW issue created by the July 2012 firmware update provided by Garmin.

 

[Brantel]

Just to clarify...

While there may be a new bug in the 696 6.0 firmware, the NAV source lost issue with Dynon and NMEA devices has been around for years now.  It seems to be worse on Garmin handhelds of various models but has been reported on other brands as well.

There are still reports of the bug with the latest beta version posted by Dynon mentioned above.

 

[Polaris]

Same setup and same experiences today after u/d to 6.0 on my Garmin 695. Virtually flawless performance til now with my Dynon plus AP suite so must be the Garmin update to blame. Grr. Have a three-country XC coming up as well...

 

[stevelindell]

Here is the full text response from Garmin:


"Service Record Details
Service Record Number: 94934
Subject: 696 Software ver 6.0 Problem
Last update: 07/30/2012 18:50:45
Name:
Phone:
Email: xxxxx@yahoo.com
Brief description of the problem:
Hi Steve,

Thank you for contacting Garmin International. Our software engineers are aware of this issue and currently attempting to troubleshoot it and hope to have a new software update released soon. Unfortunately, there is no way to recover the previous version of software. I would encourage you to check back near the end of the week for an additional software update.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any questions.

Best regards,

Jessica K.
Pilot Operations
Aviation Product Support"

I also found Nav guidance on my multi-point flight plan was off by some margin at several waypoints. Off by nearly a mile on some waypoints. Looks like Garmin may have rushed this update to support the sale of the new ADS-B receiver without properly flight testing it. Why they haven't pulled Ver 6 from the download site is a mystery.  SL

 

[juhee]

Hi all, here is what I think I am dealing with: I have the Garmin GDU 375, the panel mounted version of the 696. Kinda sorta! It looks identical to 696, but originally started out difficient in NEMIA codes to do much without building it out to a full blown G3X. I guess Garmin had a change of heart and equalized it to the 696 through software upgrades so it could stand alone and drive flight plans etc without the expensive hardware upgrades. Below changes read similar to 696 software changes page. Sooooo I guess all the above forum posts apply to me as well? Thanks for any differing opinions. Doug in IL

Changes made from version 6.40 to 7.00:
[ch9702]Added support for GDL 39 FIS-B weather and ADS-B traffic data.
[ch9702]General improvements to system operation.
[ch9702]Includes GSU 73 system software version 2.18.

 

[Polaris]

Props to SteveL for posting the response from Garmin. I will contact them as well. If they get enough feedback they will move on rectifying what is obviously a bum u/d. Rgds Mike.

 

[Polaris]

Just received an e-mail from Garmin support in which they include an executable file to revert to v 5.0.

 

[Foxflier]

Just received an e-mail from Garmin support in which they include an executable file to revert to v 5.0. 

Wish I had found this thread last Wed  :'(
I updated last Wed and just returned from a roundtrip Houston to Pensacola.  Had to hand fly other than pitch.  My D100/696 worked fine in pitch but roll kept dropping out every few mins.  What a PITA.

Does Garmin have an ETA on the 6.0 fix or are they advising going back to 5.0?

 

[stevelindell]

This from Garmin on Aug 4:

Yes, an issue has been identified with the new software that was recently released to support the GDL39. A couple of clarifications.
The GPSMAP 69X and GDL39 work just fine with no problems. The GPSMAP 69X does not lose navigation.
The issue is only experienced by those that are using NMEA Out data streams to external devices (with and without the GDL39). The periodic NMEA Out transmissions can be interrupted at times causing the external devices using the data to indicate issues (such as Nav Lost).
We expect to have new software in a short time to correct the issue. We flew some new software with improved prioritization of serial data output over 260 nm this morning and didn't experience any issues, so we believe we are close to releasing improvements.
Those that prefer to downgrade to V5.00 may do so, but GDL39 support will be lost and user settings will be lost. User preferences will have to be manually restored. Contact us at the email address below if you need to downgrade for some reason before we have a new version with GDL39 support to fix the issue.
We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

Steve
__________________
Garmin G3X Support
g3xpert@garmin.com
1-866-739-5687 - 7 to 7 Central Time M to F

 

[Foxflier]

This from Garmin on Aug 4:

Yes, an issue has been identified with the new software that was recently released to support the GDL39. A couple of clarifications.
The GPSMAP 69X and GDL39 work just fine with no problems. The GPSMAP 69X does not lose navigation.
The issue is only experienced by those that are using NMEA Out data streams to external devices (with and without the GDL39). The periodic NMEA Out transmissions can be interrupted at times causing the external devices using the data to indicate issues (such as Nav Lost).
We expect to have new software in a short time to correct the issue. We flew some new software with improved prioritization of serial data output over 260 nm this morning and didn't experience any issues, so we believe we are close to releasing improvements.
Those that prefer to downgrade to V5.00 may do so, but GDL39 support will be lost and user settings will be lost. User preferences will have to be manually restored. Contact us at the email address below if you need to downgrade for some reason before we have a new version with GDL39 support to fix the issue.
We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

Steve
__________________
Garmin G3X Support
g3xpert@garmin.com
1-866-739-5687 - 7 to 7 Central Time M to F

Thanks.  Yep, this is exactly what I've experienced.  696 works fine but my D100 (and my E-04 ELT I'm sure  ) failed regularly due to corrupt NMEA output I'm figuring.

I guess I'll wait a week or two to see if Garmin gets a rev out.

I would like to see a good fix from Dynon for the ages old dropout problem.  Even with good NMEA I still get the annoying dropouts from time to time like everyone else.  I have no idea of the root cause but I personally would be willing to trade a bit of AP course resolution for more reliable general operation if that's what it would take.

Ted

 

[JR]

please let us know if the beta firmware fixed the issue you're experiencing. If we hear affirmatively from enough customers that the fix did work (and, obviously, didn't break anything else), then we'll consider making this a general release.

I tried and replied in May that the beta DID NOT fix the problem as did others
Theres another AP thread requesting help from users where these replies are listed

Looks like different issue to that discussed here but similar??

 

[Brantel]

From Garmin:

"We just released new software for the GPSMAP 69X and G3X (and standalone GDU 37X) that fixes the issue with intermittent loss of NMEA Out to external devices.

695/696 V 6.10 http://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00667-40&cID=446&pID=14859

G3X V7.10 http://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00G3X-00&cID=155&pID=63892

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Steve"

 

[Polaris]

I'll be trying out the 6.1 update this weekend and will feedback my dropout performance. Interested in y'alls results. Mike.

 

[Foxflier]

From Garmin:

"We just released new software for the GPSMAP 69X and G3X (and standalone GDU 37X) that fixes the issue with intermittent loss of NMEA Out to external devices.

695/696 V 6.10 http://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00667-40&cID=446&pID=14859

G3X V7.10 http://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00G3X-00&cID=155&pID=63892

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Steve"

Excellent, thanks. 

Hopefully that'll fix the Garmin end of the lost source problem 

 

[Brantel]

Just to clarify...

While there may be a new bug in the 696 6.0 firmware, the NAV source lost issue with Dynon and NMEA devices has been around for years now.  It seems to be worse on Garmin handhelds of various models but has been reported on other brands as well.

There are still reports of the bug with the latest beta version posted by Dynon mentioned above.

On the long term NAV Source Lost Issue

Let me be clear. I do not think the issue is with the Garmin GPS's or the Garmin NMEA data stream. I personally think the issue is in Dynon's code.

Reasons I think this:

•No other user of Garmin's NMEA data stream have reported an issue.
•People with other brands of GPS's have reported the same issue.
•I have spend hours and hours logging NMEA data from my Garmin GPS's and have never found an error in the data stream

 

[Foxflier]

On the long term NAV Source Lost Issue

Let me be clear.  I do not think the issue is with the Garmin GPS's or the Garmin NMEA data stream.  I personally think the issue is in Dynon's code.

Reasons I think this:

•No other user of Garmin's NMEA data stream have reported an issue.
•People with other brands of GPS's have reported the same issue.
•I have spend hours and hours logging NMEA data from my Garmin GPS's and have never found an error in the data stream

I agree with you.  I've wondered if it's something like a buffering issue, where the D100 is capturing and parsing NMEA data until a point where the D100 processing can't keep up and it fails over instead of skipping data to catch up. 

This recent Garmin NMEA out issue has nothing to do with this long running Dynon problem.

I love my D100 but I hate it when passengers ask why I have to reset the AP every so often... not the picture of reliability the uninitiated expect from avionics.

 

[Polaris]

By way of feedback... flew 3.5 hours yesterday with my Garmin 695/6 running v6.1. Am happy to report zero issues. In stark contrast with v6.0, I did not have a single NAV dropout, just a flawless and fluid series of flights that were 75% coupled, and had the Dynon 100/120/AP74 navigating in all modes on single and multiple leg flight plans in occasional moderate chop at altitudes from 3000 to 11000 feet and airspeeds from Vy+20 to Vne. Couldn't be happier and at least for me, Garmin's 6.1 update for the 695/6 is 100% stable and 100% compatible with my Dynon suite. I do acknowledge that this in no way refutes nor negates the glitches that others are experiencing with their setups.