Request for 5% Wide EMS Screen!!!!

[dynonsupport]

Could you do a mockup of that maybe on your development system? Just a black strip for the 5%? (Don't mockup new widgets.) And post what it would look like?

Unfortunately, no, this is where 50% of the work is. We don't just tell the system to make a screen 40% or 80%- each layout must be hand tweaked to make it look right. Font sizes, exact location of things, size of the HSI, and even where all the various alerts pop up (that you don't normally see) all have to be considered and put in the right place. And now we have the 6 pack to worry about!

Already we can see some people want 47.5 for everything, and some want 55% PFD and 40% MAP, and others want 40% PFD and 55% MAP. That's only 2X the number of screen sizes we currently have!

So, as I say, a lot of work. Not impossible, not man months, but far from just a day or two. If it were constrained to a more restricted set (5%, 40%, 55%), then it would be a lot easier, but I have a feeling you'll get that consensus about the same time all builders decide to just build and RV-14 and Vans stops making all other kits.

I personally am not in love with a ton of green that makes the number smaller so it can fit inside the green indicator. What is the advantage of "all green" versus "no red or yellow"? Airline cockpit annuncaitor panels are not lit green all the time- they are off until an error occurs.

Please don't take any of my discussion as a negative- I really am trying to figure out how to make this work for as many users as possible.

--Ian Jordan
  Chief Systems Architect

 

[Bill_H]

Ian - great points!

Well as you can see, below are some mockups for you! I think you could tweak the green for the right contrast. Your green bars are light in the middle and progressively darker. A lighter green still says "green" but addresses the contrast issue you raise. I did not spend any time on that - just working on the size issue. (I see that you long ago noticed that black letters on fully saturated red are a problem, so white letters are used.

Another choice could be an even deeper green with white letters. Easy to do mockups of different choices, I imagine you test all these in a cockpit environment.)

I found that almost even cropping of the left and right 50% PFD and MAP pages yielded good results.

Was there a regulatory issue with showing green ranges? I would be OK with "Not-yellow-or-red" instead of green but all the widgets have the analog indication, besides the number, showing something is in the green range.* So just showing a number "gives up" that valuable context.

(*Unless, like on some instruments, there is no green range specified - look at the initial scaling of your standard Rotax oil temperature widget for example. I have a question about that I will do on a different thread.)

Thanks, Bill

 

[purlee]

I think the screen design issues could be sorted by a case of "any colour so long as it is black" (which Henry Ford actually never said).

You could simply and arbitarily say "47.5%,47.5%,5%, take it or leave it"

It is not as though anyone is losing anything by this, it is simply a "nice to have" they can use if they want to, I mean, they don't get a choice in the colour of the Dynon bezel, do they, it is any colour they like, if they like black.

Re: What's the matter with "no red or yellow", absolutely nothing! I would be quite happy to have it greyed out for "ops normal" so long as the values are readable and it changes to a different colour when the engine needs my attention.

 

[rgmwa]

That 5% sidebar (with backgrounds changing colours as required) is a great idea. Yes please, Dynon.
rgmwa

 

[swatson999]

I personally am not in love with a ton of green that makes the number smaller so it can fit inside the green indicator. What is the advantage of "all green" versus "no red or yellow"? Airline cockpit annuncaitor panels are not lit green all the time- they are off until an error occurs.

Actually, that's a really good point...perhaps just make the numbers green, with no (or a black) background unless they go yellow or red. I doubt most people would *not* want to see things like oil pressure, CHT, etc., just so that every so often they can confirm it's "still okay" while in cruise, etc.

 

[Bill_H]

VERY good suggestion by Steve W. on green numbers, not highlighted! Things on the screen should have prominence based on their importance, and abnormal situations should stand out much more than normal ones. So highlighting of Yellow and Red, no highlighting (or much more subtle highlighting) for normal (green)! Here's how that would look:

 

[rgmwa]

Numbers only with black background except for flagged conditions is a good idea. The rest of the screen can be 47.5/47.5 or 55/40 or 40/55. Whatever is easiest to program.
rgmwa

 

[rlallen1]

I must say..I will like the last pic from Bill_H. Got my vote

 

[DonFromTX]

Even realizing that it would be a lot of work for you Dynon, I think this is an idea that has a lot of merit. I would personally consider it a very favorable upgrade to an already superior system, and it seems that others feel the same. Thanks for giving it consideration!

Could you do a mockup of that maybe on your development system? Just a black strip for the 5%? (Don't mockup new widgets.) And post what it would look like?

Unfortunately, no, this is where 50% of the work is. We don't just tell the system to make a screen 40% or 80%- each layout must be hand tweaked to make it look right. Font sizes, exact location of things, size of the HSI, and even where all the various alerts pop up (that you don't normally see) all have to be considered and put in the right place. And now we have the 6 pack to worry about!

Already we can see some people want 47.5 for everything, and some want 55% PFD and 40% MAP, and others want 40% PFD and 55% MAP. That's only 2X the number of screen sizes we currently have!

So, as I say, a lot of work. Not impossible, not man months, but far from just a day or two. If it were constrained to a more restricted set (5%, 40%, 55%), then it would be a lot easier, but I have a feeling you'll get that consensus about the same time all builders decide to just build and RV-14 and Vans stops making all other kits.

I personally am not in love with a ton of green that makes the number smaller so it can fit inside the green indicator. What is the advantage of "all green" versus "no red or yellow"? Airline cockpit annuncaitor panels are not lit green all the time- they are off until an error occurs.

Please don't take any of my discussion as a negative- I really am trying to figure out how to make this work for as many users as possible.

--Ian Jordan
  Chief Systems Architect

 

[DHeal]

I love the 5% EMS with "Numbers only with black background except for flagged conditions". That would likely be my "in cruise" layout. I tend to use the 50/50 PFD/EMS for takeoff / landing.

 

[rvator51]

That 5% screen sure looks good to me too to use in cruise and allow the map on my 7" Skyview to be bigger.

 

[swatson999]

I can buy you some more real estate...I don't need "1,2,3,4" underneath EGT and CHT.

 

[jc2da]

Wow, awesome work guys! I love the layout and all the ideas. I would love this.

Is this a possibility to minimize the programming work? Basically, overlay the 5% EMS strip on top of an existing 50/50 layout. IE implement the EMS strip as a tall and narrow info bubble.

Thus, everything about the 50/50 display remains the same. No changes. Simply add the EMS strip on top of the map page on the right or left side maybe. Hopefully the transparent background won't affect the visibility of the EMS values much.

Jae

 

[swatson999]

Wow, awesome work guys! I love the layout and all the ideas. I would love this.

Is this a possibility to minimize the programming work? Basically, overlay the 5% EMS strip on top of an existing 50/50 layout. IE implement the EMS strip as a tall and narrow info bubble.

Thus, everything about the 50/50 display remains the same. No changes. Simply add the EMS strip on top of the map page on the right or left side maybe. Hopefully the transparent background won't affect the visibility of the EMS values much.

Jae

Of course, you can do anything in software , but I would rather see it as a separate window, for two reasons: one, I like to minimize the amount of overlaid "stuff" if possible (still have a lot of it on both the map and the pfd), and two, I think it sort of breaks the architecture of the system to have one (of three) screens which sometimes overlaid on others, and other times isn't...

But it might work, if done right...

 

[purlee]

Yes, I would be a "separate window" man as well, you don't want to hide anything critical against a red terrain backdrop.

I guess you could probably save a bit of programming time by having a fixed, arbitary set of information displayed in this strip, basically RPM, MP, Pressures, Temps and Fuel.

I think Bill has done a great job of selecting the things we need, I can't, off hand, think of anything I would add or take away. Nicely done Bill!

 

[purlee]

Going back to Bill's last picture, perhaps the one improvement I would suggest is to change the labels to the top of the value, rather than underneath the value.

While that is the reverse of what you expect with a dial, it is easier to read in a strip, or perhaps it is just the way my brain works but

RPM
2350
MP
22
Oil P
75

is a little more logical in a list

There you go Ian, we are not leaving you much to work out! ;D ;D

 

[swatson999]

If you *really* want to save screen real estate, you could use symbols

22.0"
1400* (I don't know how to put a "degrees" symbol in the text here)
etc.

Might have to make one or two, like a little "RPM", say, going down in an angle to the right of the value...

After all, I can probably figure out that 22.0" inches Is my manifold pressure, etc.

Just more thinking out loud...

 

[Bill_H]

I had the label below the value to be consistent with other widgets. Surrounding each number widget with a thin grey box - designed to exactly line up and stack for a neat appearance, and to have no more than a one-pixel gap around the contents, would probably better associate the value with the label. Those pixels add up fast though!

The multi-cht /egt blocks would just have one box around all 4 values and the label. A two-value version would also be needed for ROTAX, which has one EGT and one CHT for each side of the engine.

Some space could be saved by getting a bit fancy in the programming. Consider, you could have a specialty widget with only ONE number showing for EGT, being the hottest one. Same for CHT. Or maybe 2 numbers for the hottest two. Remember the 20% screen would only be a button push away to see lots more detail.

Another space-saving thing you could do is have two side-by-side small vertical widgets fitting in the 5% width. One is CHT and the other is EGT. There are 4 separate dots or spots that move up and down - one spot for each reading. Hottest number is the one displayed numerically. Doesn't matter if the spots overlap. This would take up less vertical space than the 8 numbers shown.

The only addition to the list I can think of would be Percent Power. My initial design was to see how much I could neatly and legibly fit in a 5 percent space, keeping the numbers close to the other Skyview sizes.

 

[southtarnation]

Wanted to add my vote for this awesome feature request and withdraw my vote on the other thread for it be at the bottom. Love it!!!

 

[MacPara]

I love the 5% EMS with "Numbers only with black background except for flagged conditions".  That would likely be my "in cruise" layout.  I tend to use the 50/50 PFD/EMS for takeoff / landing.

I second that! Great idea having 5% for cruise and 20 or 50% EMS for take-off and landing.